Tesla Turning the Corner

Dyson? Google? But you know very well he wasn't talking about startups.

What he's talking about is which direction the move into bankruptcy.

Reply to
krw
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They don't like him because he receives taxpayer money but doesn't make petroleum products or weapons systems.

For what their financial future is I wouldn't care to speculate I don't see much reason to take a short position on Tesla, at least not that much more reason than a bunch of other tech companies. If instead of talking about shorting Tesla they'd actually had a short position on Facebook as of 48 hours ago they could've made enough money to buy ten Teslas. Oh well.

If Tesla makes one worried that they're over-leveraged it's like, welp, if that's something that spikes your anxiety I wouldn't be looking at the Federal government's leverage situation too closely then, eh?

Reply to
bitrex

I think Elon Musk has mentioned putting electric propulsion in a ski boat. That would be pretty awesome. I already have a ski boat I don't use, but an electric boat would be a fierce cutter. Gas engines are very bulky and gasoline on the water can be very dangerous. A ski boat doesn't need nearl y the range of a car so the battery pack could be much smaller and lighter.

I know they have the model Y next up for production, a smaller SUV type car . Then a pickup is in the works if I understand it. They've also talked a bout a semi tractor. Not sure if an aquatic vessel actually in the plans o r if it is just a bullet on a chart somewhere still.

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

Water and electricity is not exactly safe. Water and lithium is pretty darn exciting!

how long does it need to run for?

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Reply to
Jasen Betts

Good thing they are good at keeping the lithium inside the batteries.

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Exactly. That's the operative question, not some bs about wanting to drive 500 miles without refueling. I can't remember ever skiing for more than a n hour or two before everyone was tired and wanted to go back to the house. The cars run around four hours without a charge. Likely a boat would be similar. With a Tesla wall charger equivalent by the boat dock in a couple hours it would charge enough for two more hours of use. A 90 amp breaker charges the cars at 17.2 kW. The cars use around 20 kWHr for an hour drivi ng at highway speeds. I expect a ski boat will be a bit more efficient sin ce you don't need much throttle once you get up on plane. I doubt it would use regenerative braking though, lol.

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

Metallic lithium, sure.

Does it matter? Whatever it's size, it's going to be heavier than the equivalent volume of water and a _lot_ heavier than the energy equivalent of gasoline. "Heavy" in a boat means a larger volume, which means more friction...

A battery powered ski boat makes absolutely no sense.

Reply to
krw

Heavier than water... you mean like an ICE motor?

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

I think JL has a very valid point here. Electric vehicles make good sense for in town commuting with many short regular journeys but are a complete PITA even for travelling modest distances in the UK (their maximum range between charging is insufficient).

I can see that in the US where there are very long roads you need more range just to get between charging stations. I am looking at the option of an electric car in the UK at the moment (having previously been diesel because of high annual mileage and fuel economy). I suspect I will end up with either petrol or hybrid - I can't see electric only being able to work given where I live in the country.

If you cannot recharge the battery in the time it takes to eat a meal at a motorway service station then it really isn't going to fly except for short in town runabouts where it is a win for low pollution. It will also get tricky if there is no charger available when you get there.

Even in the UK where there is a fairly decent charging network range still matters. We just did a journey (my car will cover around 800 miles on a full tank) that would have required incredibly careful planning and four stops in an electric car (two of them were overnight).

I don't have that much faith in fast chargers as applied to electric car batteries. My instinct is that fast charging makes more waste heat which makes them hot and high temperature invariably shortens their lifetime. This is especially true if having got them nice and hot by fast charging you then jump in and drive off at high speed on a motorway.

Also true in the UK (apart from in London where there is good public transport infrastructure).

Fuel costs being about twice as high in Europe and Japan do tip the balance in favour of smaller cars and electric vehicles for short commutes as do taxes based on CO2 & NOx emissions and congestion zones.

It is the NOx issue in cities that means my next car will not be a diesel - also my annual mileage will be about half in future. It was 30k miles in previous years so fuel economy really adds up to big savings.

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Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

Here's an electric ski boat looks awesome frankly.

Reply to
bitrex

The greatest boating hazard with an ICE boat: drowning

The greatest boating hazard with an electric boat: drowning

Reply to
bitrex

Actually if you want to be technical it's probably fire. leading to drowning as a "secondary effect." ICE boats catch fire pretty regularly given that fuel burns really well

Reply to
bitrex

There are lots of battery-powered skateboards and scooters around here. Put the batteries and props directly on the water skis.

It's not efficient to push all that boat around to move one skiier.

But I admit that a ski boat that nobody uses is pretty efficient.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

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Reply to
John Larkin

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I guess the hundreds of thousands of Teslas sold are never used on trips. I'm traveling from Maryland to Houston Texas by way of Tennessee and New Or leans at the end of the month. Yes, I will have to stop an extra time for charging on each leg compared to gas fillups and it will take 30 to 60 minu tes at each stop. But when I've driven four hours, I'm ready to get out of the car and stretch my legs. I know some people think the way to go cross country is to drive until their fingers are numb but I want to enjoy my tr ip.

BTW, how is the UK different from anywhere else in this regard???

I don't follow your reasoning. The chargers are placed based on the batter y range in all countries. It has nothing to do with where your cities are.

I don't expect every car to suit every driver. Your exact needs are yours and yours alone.

Yes, that is my point. Only Tesla supports their owners with a network of fast chargers. The other cars all take hours to charge fully or about an h our to put three hours of range on the battery. In my opinion, this is ove r the limit of what is tolerable and it is all because of the lack of atten tion to the charging side of electric car ownership.

When I talked to the Tesla salesman, he could address every issue I wanted to discuss. When I talked to the GM salesman about charging I saw a change in attitude because GM literally has *nothing* to say on the matter other than, "charging happens".

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I have never seen a car in my life that had 800 mile range. Do you have du al tanks? Most are 300 to 400 miles. The Teslas can have a range up to 30

0 miles. With a suitably located chargers that will get you anywhere you w ant to go stopping between 30 minutes and an hour every 3 to four hours.

It's not a matter of faith. It's a matter of science and technology. Lear n or remain ignorant and base your opinions on "faith". But don't bother m e with your blather if you don't even try to learn a bit.

I'm an older white guy with loads of dough, but I don't want to burn a bunc h of fuel. I drove a pickup with a stick and a V6 until very recently beca use it got 20 MPG which is pretty good for a truck. Now most of my driving will be in the Tesla.

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Every car you drive has to maintain a delicate balance between NOx and hydr ocarbon emissions unless it is electric. If you are driving 30 kmiles a ye ar, you are creating twice as much pollution as the next guy and should try to mitigate that. Electric cars are a viable solution if you are willing to pay the up front cost. In case you didn't know, electric cars use half the $$$ in fuel than do gas cars. Easy to verify that, 100 kWHr/full charg e, 300 mile range/charge, your marginal price/kWHr...

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

And if your time is worth anything, filling up in 5 minutes has value. You can spend that 5 minutes cleaning your windows. The charging stations that I see around here don't have restrooms, windshield washing stuff, air for tires, snacks, or even shelter from the rain.

I wonder how charging stations will scale. Cars spend a lot of time charging, so the station needs many times the area of a gas station. Rural stations might have to run megawatt power lines long distances. One gas tanker truck transports a lot of kilowatt hours.

A plug-in hybrid sort of makes sense if your daily driving is short but you want to make weekend trips. But then, a gas car makes equal or better sense. Two separate propulsion systems, plus gas tank and batteries, in one vehicle is expensive. Daily recharging could be a hassle.

I visit a gas station about every two weeks unless we go up to the mountains, in which case one fillup gets us there and one gets us back, 5 minutes each.

If you don't drive much, gas and electric cars are about a wash. If you do drive long distances, gas is better.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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Reply to
John Larkin

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John is a funny animal. You can explain things to him over and over and he doesn't seem to learn. He keeps bringing up the same tired, overworked is sues without ever learning the answers.

Electric cars are mostly charged in the home. Does that make it simple eno ugh for you? Most owners will have a 240 volt outlet that will be capable of charging a car 100% overnight, actually in about 10 hours. If you sprin g for a higher current circuit this can be reduced to about half that. So instead of having to make a trip to the gas station you will simply plug in your car each night and always have a full tank.

Instead of obsessing over needing to charge at a Supercharger in Trukee onc e or twice a year, focus on all the many trips to the gas station you can a void, never having to worry about getting gas on your hands or clothes.

As a bonus, when we run into the next gas crisis and gasoline is rationed, guess who won't be waiting in line or worrying about whether the license pl ate is even or odd!

There is nothing in this equation that makes the gas only car the winner un less you are limited to buying the cheapest car you can get with no means o f borrowing money. The cost of ownership is less for both hybrid and elect ric cars than it is for gas cars. The cost of the car is about equal to th e cost of the fuel at today's prices. If gas goes to $4 a gal again, it wi ll be even more lopsided.

So you don't mind the hassle of some thirty trips to dirty, smelly gas stat ions per year rather than the two trips to a charging station for a Tesla? Let's see, 30 x 5 mins is 2.5 hours plus driving time vs. a couple of 45 minute charges which you can do while you eat, shop or enjoy something else ?

But for most people who drive about the average amount and take longer trip s a couple times per year, electric cars are a great way to go!

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

That's what 90% of Americans do with their cars 90% of the time. The "natural state" of an automobile is sitting in a parking lot or garage the majority of its life. It might as well be charging while it does that.

Again sorry to put too fine a point about it but you're all older people with older people driving habits. Working people aren't taking regular

300 mile jaunts in their car. We working 60 hours a week 46 weeks a year when do we have the time to do that exactly. I've never taken my Volt more than 100 miles from home it's the perfect commuter car which is what most people use their cars the time. You want to go further afield rent a car, take a bus, train, plane, whatever. You'll be able to afford a lot of train tickets with the money you save on gas.

You can't even take a leased car that you also use for commuting on regular 300 mile trips on the weekend as well, most leases are ~39 months 10,000 or 12,000 miles per year, 25 cents a mile every mile over, and you'll burn through that fast taking regular long trips. Even so car leases sell just fine in the US where you think all the late model used cars come from.

Reply to
bitrex

Can't even get Verizon to run fiber optic data lines or even DSL into rural areas without grumping, the utilities are never running megawatts of high-tension extra capacity to low-population rural areas for any reason they'll let them sit in the dark before they do that.

Doesn't really matter though so long as you have a washer/dryer outlet service available you can charge about 25 miles/hr with a more modern Level 2 charge controller (more modern than the Volt's cost-saving onboard charge controller design, at least.) Try getting some sleep it's good for you.

Reply to
bitrex

Lots of people don't have garages; I park on the street.

I guess every parking spot on every street could have an electrical outlet. Sounds expensive.

In California, many do. We have "weekends" and "vacations." There are lots of places to go to: wine country, Big Sur, mountains, lakes, camping, rafting, surfing, visit friends in other cities. People like to get out of town. The young people that I know drive a lot more than I do.

I drive more miles on trips than driving in the city. It's nice to have a small car that works in the city and in the mountains.

Electric cars seem to be mostly for enthusiasts. Gas powered cars aren't a problem that needs to be solved.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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Reply to
John Larkin

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Lol, you are such a trip. The rural areas won't need expansion of electric al capacity and very likely no one else will either. Most charging can be done at night when the usage is well off peak. In fact, I plan to change m y electrical plan to cut my rates in half with a 10x premium during "peak" hours which are different in summer and winter, but still not a problem. T his will save a lot on electricity.

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

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Everything you don't like "sounds expensive". I expect an electric car is not the right car for you. Mostly it just won't work with your temperament . For people who don't believe everything they read on Breitbart the diffe rence in routine required to use an electric car will be perfectly suitable .

At one time it was a common site to see an electrical cord sticking out fro m under the hood of vehicles in Minnesota. The winters are so cold cars of ten would not start without electric block heaters. Even during the day th ey could be needed in the worst weather. There were outlets available down town in many places.

Electricity is everywhere. Outlets are not so expensive and can be profita ble.

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Gas powered cars are *the* problem to be solved. We like to think we have fixed the air pollution problem, but we've only brought it down to a level where we don't have so many air quality alerts. Our cars still produce far too much pollution and burn far too much fossil fuels. But then you are i n complete denial about anything ecological, eh?

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

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