Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...

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Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...

<https://townhall.com/columnists/pauldriessen/2017/07/22/tesla-battery-subsidy-and-sustainability-fantasies-n2358396
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On Saturday, July 22, 2017 at 4:44:16 PM UTC-4, Jim Thompson wrote:
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bsidy-and-sustainability-fantasies-n2358396>

Whatshisname is a total crock of brown stuff. As if he hasn't got enough un
finished and failing projects, the mental case is lining up work for diggin
g his hyperloop tunnel from DC to NY or something ridiculous. Of course thi
s will loot the national treasury of even more subsidy money.


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Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On 07/22/2017 04:19 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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That tunnel scheme is interesting...where's the escape hatch for when  
the passenger car gets jammed in place?


Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
wrote:

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It would be nice if some crapheads could do a proper job of
quotation/attribution.
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 6:20:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Thompson wrote:
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y-subsidy-and-sustainability-fantasies-n2358396>
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gh unfinished and failing projects, the mental case is lining up work for d
igging his hyperloop tunnel from DC to NY or something ridiculous. Of cours
e this will loot the national treasury of even more subsidy money.
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You're talking about $1B/mile in that area.

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Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 15:17:11 -0700 (PDT),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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Hey, the Big Dig was such a great idea!  Just double down, a few
times.

Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
Bill Martin wrote:


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Escape hatch?  How about suicide hatch?  The tunnels will be evacuated, so  
opening the hatch in the car will kill everybody.  Or, a leak in the car  
will do the same.

Jon

Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
Jon Elson wrote on 7/24/2017 3:21 PM:
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We have people die of smoke inhalation in the subway.  I wonder which is  
better?

--  

Rick C

Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
Jim Thompson wrote:

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subsidy-and-sustainability-fantasies-n2358396>
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I went out to the LA area a few months ago, and saw a LOT of Teslas, Volts  
and Leafs (Leaves?)  Way more than in my area (St. Louis, MO)  Now, just  
lately, I am starting to see a lot more Teslas here, too.  Pretty much every  
day I see one, it used to be about once a month.  So, somebody must be  
buying them.

Yes, some of Tesla's (Musk's) big plans to implement huge utility-scale  
energy storage seem like a big challenge - like maybe buying up the entire  
Lithium supply for several years.

Jon

Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 12:19:40 PM UTC-7, Jon Elson wrote:
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Lots of EV in the SF area too.  I guess they are the new status symbol.
  
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Lithium for cars might make sense.  For houses, stick with lead acid.  You don't have to move the lead.



Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 7/24/2017 3:57 PM:
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You may not be moving it, but you still have to house it.  Lead acid is not  
only heavy, it's very space inefficient as well.

--  

Rick C

Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On 24/07/17 20:57, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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Many house insurance properties contain clauses that you don't
store more than a nominal amount of petrol, say 5l / 1 real gallon.
I wonder what they will say when they cotton on to the amount
of energy stored in batteries, especially some types of lithium,
batteries.


Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
Tom Gardner wrote on 7/25/2017 4:02 AM:
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but a tank of petrol is a lot more raw energy  
because of the huge inefficiency of auto engines.  Even if that is not  
strictly correct, it's within an order of magnitude.  I don't think  
insurance companies care if there isn't some significant difference in risk.

--  

Rick C

Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On 26/07/17 00:10, rickman wrote:
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I was thinking of the petrol being stored in a can rather
than a fuel tank, since that's what insurance companies
are jittery about. Whether those are sensible jitters is a
separate question.

34ML/l => ~9.4kWh.
So 1 gallon has ~42kWh (or 34MJ if you live in the US
and are therefore  shortchanged :)

So, how much energy are you proposing be stored in batteries?


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I wouldn't say "huge"; it is about 25% whereas a
thermal power station is 29% at best.


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The novel and unknown is a risk in itself.


Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On 26/07/17 06:56, Tom Gardner wrote:
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Sigh. 34kWh.


Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On Wednesday, 26 July 2017 06:56:36 UTC+1, Tom Gardner  wrote:
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any way to deny some future payouts is less cost for them.


NT

Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
Tom Gardner wrote on 7/26/2017 1:56 AM:
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Don't know why you say this.  If you have an attached garage it raises your  
home owner's insurance rates.  So obviously they have concerns about the gas  
in the tank as well.


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They typically hold in the range of 40 to 60 kWHr of electricity.  The high  
end Teslas hold up to 100 kWHr.  You know, the ones that will accelerate 0  
to 60 MPH in 2.3 seconds.


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Your numbers seem to be in disagreement with the rest of the experts.  The  
info I find on the Internet seems to say The lowest type of generation is  
25% efficient, gas turbines, but the other types of generation range from  
33% to 45% efficient.


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No, insurance companies are not in the business of risk in that *they* don't  
take risks.  If something is too new to have info they can calculate rates  
from, they don't insure it.

Insurance companies are in the business of making money.  Just like  
professional gamblers, they don't take risks, they make sure they know what  
is going on.

--  

Rick C

Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On 26/07/17 08:19, rickman wrote:
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I've seen Ts&Cs stating no more than 5l/1gallon of
petrol stored in a can.

I've never distinguished between different types
of garage, since I've only been looking for insurance
for one type of property.


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Tesla and others are also proposing (no more at the
moment) houses having lithium batteries for energy
storage.


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You may be right; I suspect the figure I dimly
recollected was for coal fired plants.


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Of course. If something is new and unknown, they charge more.
Unless it is so new that it isn't even on their radar :)

But even then there may be a T&C relating to non-standard
use or industrial of properties. Only trust an insurance
company as far as you can throw it; they are expert at
squirming and delaying payments - even for insured risks
that clearly aren't your fault such as wide scale flooding.



Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 1:02:15 AM UTC-7, Tom Gardner wrote:
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An additional issue with Li-Ion batteries is that in addition to the energy stored in the electrodes the electrolyte itself is highly flammable.

kevin

Re: Tesla Battery Fantasy Time...
kevin93 wrote on 7/26/2017 3:23 PM:
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But then so is everything else in the house.

--  

Rick C

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