Should a Technician do engineering?

n n e

why is it important what your job title is?

-Lasse

The only place I ever worked where there was a technologist classification also called engineers Member of Technical Staff. A technologist had a 2-year associate's degree from a better-class place such as BCIT (British Columbia Institute of Technology), but folks with bachelor's degrees would have been MTSes. Technologists there were very clear about the class distinction between them and technicians.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

Sheeeesh! Where are you? In New York? Unless reclassified, I'd get out while I still had at least the "technologist" title... "technician" will downgrade your future job possibilities... particularly given that the job market has been Obamatized :-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I discovered a lot that classification and terminology nonsense is dictated by insurance companies. Companies get insurance rates based on numbers and catagories of engineers, techs, workers, etc, on the payroll.

I once worked in Silicon Valley as a sr technician. I started as an assembler, but due to previous experience as a sr tech at govt labs quickly moved up to tech as was eventually groomed to become an engineer. Many SV companies, such as mine, were farsighted enough to promote techs to engineering positions. Some of it was, again, driven by insurance requirements. A lot of it was simply experience and the vagaries of the title, engineer. Unfortuenately, jes when I was about to be promoted, the dot com boom collapsed and half the company was let go. No probs. I'd made enough big bucks to retire.

The point is, I did a lot of the same work as engineers, often better. Sometimes I resented it. Other times I welcomed the challenge. I know it's frustrating to be doing the same work and not getting the same pay, but demanding to do less will most assuredly not get you more. I'd have been promoted to engineer sooner if I hadn't, in one instance, taken that same self-defeating stand. Just keep doing your very best and be thankful you are even employed doing what you like. It could all be gone in a heartbeat. Believe it.

nb

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I'm in the PRK (ie, CA).

Yes, the title is important because if I want to apply to another company, they will interpret these classifications to have well understood meanings.

My boss grasped this when I said that this issue was more important to me than pay, at least in the intermediate term. My pay is fairly Ok.

--
_____________________
Mr.CRC
crobcBOGUS@REMOVETHISsbcglobal.net
SuSE 10.3 Linux 2.6.22.17

That's a funny driver. In the case of my employer, it is the DOE driving the reclassifications.

I know what you mean, I feel both ways at times too. Most of what I do is self-inflicted. I've observed some problems, proposed solutions, then was given the green light to go ahead. But I have a habit of jumping into the deep end of the pool, and really have to learn some new tricks to get out.

Of course. My questions about "should I stop doing these" were hypothetical, to make a point. I think my boss grasped that.

Oh, I believe it. I am grateful for my job--because most of its aspects other than title are truly remarkable. Usually when I get into a conflict, my perspective is how to best serve the needs of myself as well as the scientists whose careers and research depend on my support.

Thanks for the feedback!

--
_____________________
Mr.CRC
crobcBOGUS@REMOVETHISsbcglobal.net
SuSE 10.3 Linux 2.6.22.17

Since you have a BS in chemistry, you have had the necessary math and physics and thermo skills installed/pounded-in, and clearly you can use them on electronics. I wouldn't hesitate to call you a design engineer, and your boss is borderline crazy to call you a tech. Tell him that, as politely as necessary.

--

John Larkin, President       Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com   

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME  analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

That is slightly better than being in the PRNY :-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Because your next employer will look at it?

In a lot of big organizations, job title is an official classification that influences pay, promotion, all sorts of stuff.

--

John Larkin, President       Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com   

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME  analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

Because it strongly influences what job you can get next, when your present job disappears because management was too incompetent to...

Oh, never mind.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Starting to look for a new job now might be a Very Good Thing. At best you'll get an offer that sparks a promotion at home. At second best you'll find a better job. At worst, nothing will change -- and that's where you'll be if you do nothing.

And being able to say "my company is reorganizing in a way that makes it hard for me to apply all of my skills in a positive manner" or some other phrasing that doesn't involve saying "the big boss is an incompetent boob" is going to sound a lot better than "my company reclassified me as a technician two years ago and it's taken me this long to get around to doing something about it".

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Amazing attitude. If you see a real problem, and a fix, you deliberately don't tell the engineer about it?

Sounds like you have been working in places with really bad attitudes, and picked up a bumch of your own.

The difference between engineers and techs is, or should be, that engineers have degrees, which means that they should have demonstrated a quantitative understanding of physics, math, thermodynamics, electromagnetics, and signal/circuit theory. Engineers should be able to begin with a problem statement and design/document architectures and circuits to solve the problem. Techs typically come into the process later, when circuit designs exist and need to be demonstrated and refined and tested.

Engineers produce documents, pencil-pushing indeed. [1]

You don't absolutely need a degree to do design, but it really helps if you spent 4 or 5 years getting good with the math.

We don't have engineering techs in our company. I think it's a bad division of function.

[1] I still draw designs with a pencil. Berol Turquoise F on d-size vellum.

--

John Larkin, President       Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com   

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME  analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

Short answer is NO!

We all know technicians who can do better work than some engineers we know. But, since fully half of engineers perform below average, the bar is pretty low. The engineer you want doing the job is in the top 1%, not the middle.

If you're doing 100% of the ENGINEERING job, you should be classified as an engineer. Be careful what you wish for. You may be trading overtime for long hours worked for free.

I never hired a technician to do engineering work, but I inherited whole engineering teams that had technicians doing engineering work. It caused nothing but problems.

You may be able to do 99% of the job, but that other 1% can, and does, shut down the production line. I spent a significant amount of effort trying to get technicians to do a competent job of little things like component tolerance analysis. I got designs with lots of production adjustments where none should have been required. I got board layouts that wouldn't pass EMC testing. The list is endless...

A lot of engineering is simple. The best engineers understand the issues related to component supply, keeping the production line running, and meeting customer needs.

You can be a competent engineer without an engineering degree, but, based on 20 years of fixing up incomplete designs, it's rare.

I also found competence rare among degreed engineers. The good ones realize they're head-and-shoulders above the pack and will never be compensated commensurately. The go off to start their own business. But that's another rant.

Don't feel so left out. Most companies don't know the deference between a Engineer, Technician and Electrician.

Where I work and depending on what day of the week it is, I could be any one of those three.

But in all retrospect, a full fledge technician actually is more valuable than just a pencil pushing engineer.

The technician actually has the experience of working with the end product and most of the time, fixing the design flaws. And of course, they are able to design their own.

But fear not, if a pencil pushing engineer initiated the project, you can be sure that engineer will be the one taking the all good credit for the working part of it and blame who ever they can for the non working portion for lack of cooperation, at least that is the excuse they use.

In other words, they pretty much expel themselves from any wrong doing but won't allow any one down the food chain to take any credit either.

Myself, if I did not design the project and was the one assembling the prototype, it would be nothing more than a number painting operation for me. All expected instructions to be supplied and diagnostic procedures to perform for pass or failing circuits.

I've learned long ago, you just do exactly what they say and make no suggestions otherwise, nor fix problems you see that are obvious as you go.

You'll find a high percentage of engineers in many fields don't belong where they are. They make the others look bad, but, many of those are very good at verbiage to manipulate those below them on the food chain to get the results they need and push you aside when no longer needed. I am sure you have ran into this many times already :)

If you are confident in your abilities, that should be enough. Just don't sell yourself down the road. It'll only serve others above you, leaving you in some dark corner.

And one day, you'll find out that you have no job because the engineers have blamed all their problems on lazy technicians and bad working practices and business there comes to a halt. Don't let that bother you either, it is something pencil pushing engineers put on their resume while looking for their next job.

Jamie

But a lot of engineers don't want to run a buisness. I sure don't.

All that money/insurance/payables/receivables/taxes/purchasing/manufacturing/HR stuff is a real drag, when what you want to do is design stuff. Really good engineers should find companies that value/treat/equip/amuse them properly.

--

John Larkin, President       Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com   

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME  analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

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I can understand that to some degree, but that title is only as good as the previous employer what you did should be the important part. you could call the guy cleaning the lab "member of technical staff" if you wanted to

-Lasse

Please. The word "technician" means something. It'll be *very* unlikely he'll move from there to an "engineering" position. HR wouldn't allow it. Yes, I would much rather be called a member of the "Senior Technical Staff" than a "technician". In fact, STSM was a rather high position (above Senior Engineer) in IBM. ;-)

[...]

In efficient companies with smart hiring managers HR will not have a say in this. I never allowed HR to weed out any resumes, except those with blatant spelling or grammar errors.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/