Question about fuel cells

I believe there are systems that convert Natural Gas to Hydrogen, by removing the Carbon. However, it might still be a few years away.

Fuel cells have been ten years away since they were invented in 1839.

John

Ever since peak oil.

Our local gambling casino has had 3 generating plants for their establishment that are gas fuel cells, for at least more than 5 years now.

The energy suppliers in this area made a big stink about it when they applied to build these units, so the stipulation was they couldn't emit any more than some particle count of carbon, which was some low ridiculous rate. They transplanted some trees that are noted for cleaning up this type of pollutant and the way they went!

THey got the cleanest air around! :)

Jamie

Maybe it's another case of the 120 MPG carburetor being suppressed by Big Bad Big Oil!

Cheers! Rich

Last I checked, mere mortals still can't buy Fool Sells.

Gotta be an institution of some sort. I'm sure you can get one if you try hard enough though. But why ??

boB

Fuel cells have the potental to be very efficient, by generating electricity and heating at the same time. However, your local utilities are fighting very hard to stop it. How else can they charge

They have been available for micro-generation and for certain bespoke applications like telephone exchange battery backup substitutes for a while now. I was at a UK exhibition where several vendors had gear on display capable of running moderate loads. It made it all the more annoying that the exhibition site itself was powered by diesel electric generators with so much fuel cell kit stood idle on exhibitors stands.

The only ones actually running were educational toys...

Pretty sure there are some prototype methanol powered laptop devices floating about now too. The sums don't quite add up for me. YMMV

One currently offered for sale is at

Next decade is clearly better than another half century waiting for cheap fusion power. Small fuel cell units work but are not cost effective.

Best use I have heard of was in the Japanese prime ministers residence where a fuel cell generates electricity and the waste heat provides domestic hot water. Overall fuel efficiency is therefore excellent.

Regards, Martin Brown

Yes, well, PlugPower, as of 1999 was going to have one doing that on the US market in 2001, at $15K for an 8KW (electrical) size. Last time I checked in on them (I could have used one of those mythical units at that mythical price and mythical time), the unit sales/income indicated a price over $90K/unit with a lifetime (that also had to be deduced from the numbers given, as it wasn't stated - who'd want to) of 6-18 months.

Now they seem to be (only) in the forklift battery replacement market, so waste heat recovery is presumably history. They are also back to hydrogen fuel (where they had been doing natural gas and/or propane in the cogeneration/distributed power line) so perhaps there isn't so much waste heat (I think it was mostly from the reforming process.)

Mostly, John hit it on the head. Always 10 years away. But perhaps right here, right now, if you have hydrogen and forklifts (and whatever pricetag they put on those units...)

Cool. 5 grand, and it needs a 9-volt battery! I wonder how long it will last.

Imagine leaving a methanol fuel-cell powered laptop in your suitcase for a few days.

Next decade. 10 years away. Right on schedule.

At a cost likely a serious fraction of a megabuck.

John

Fuel cells are almost total bullshit.

See <

Fuel cell cars are total bullshit.

Fuel cell home generators are expensive bullshit, for now at least.

Natural gas generators are most efficient and cost effective, but it also drive people crazy with the noise. I only run mine for a couple of hours during the day. I'll pay for fuel cells if they are 90% cheaper.

Almost. They made sense for things like some manned spacecraft, where hydrogen was available, missions were short, and cost was no object.

The wiki article claims that no commercial fuel-cell company has made a profit. Which usually means that fuel cells mostly exist because of government subsidies.

Carbon nanotubes! Ten more years!

John

Because you got the Warming Madness and believe that hydrogen is a viable fuel?

In a methane fuel cell, what do they do with the carbon? CO2?

Cheers! Rich

They own the wires.

Hope This Helps! Rich

Methanol? Gasoline can't kill you by skin absorption.

Hope This Helps! Rich

It depends upon the cell. Some of them produce solid carbon as waste.

...and leave all that energy on the table?

Yeah, that's how they "sequester" it. They seem to have forgotten the inconvenient fact that trees inhale CO2.

Cheers! Rich