But how can you be so sure that it isn't an emergent behaviour of any sufficiently complex network?
One argument I have seen proposed is that if we can ever construct a powerful quantum computer in our universe then the chances that we are actually a simulation running in another universe increases enormously.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
Have you ever done soul travel, where your consciousness separates from your body? When you accomplish this, you will clearly understand there are many different levels of existence, which you can interpret as different universes. For example, see "Quantum Theory Proves Consciousness Moves To Another Universe After Death",
As you study more, you will see that we exist in all of these universes simultaneously, and with practise can move from one to another at will.
This has an amazing effect on your outlook on life.
I bet that came from an artificial intelligence trying to sway your opinion of artificial intelligences.
-- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
I have no idea.
Sylvia.
So to our knowledge, consciousness can't exist in a simulation.
-- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
No, we have no such knowledge. We neither know that it can, not that it can't.
Sylvia.
And one would think that fairly obvious. But Mr. Rickman knows everything with certainty regardless of the facts.
NT
to our knowledge we don't know what consciousness is or if it exist (your w ords), so we can't say if we are really conscious or not, let alone decide if a simulation may be able to simulate it or not.
So either a definition of consiousness is given or all the discussion about it is pointless.
Bye Jack
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 11/3/2017 6:43 AM:
I am experiencing consciousness, so clearly it exists. That is the only thing I know for sure about consciousness, it exists in me.
-- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
to:
ur words), so we can't say if we are really conscious or not, let alone dec ide if a simulation may be able to simulate it or not.
bout it is pointless.
You just said that you don't know what consciousness is, so how can you be sure that what you are experiencing IS consciousness?
Bye Jack
What we experience is what defines consciousness, so there is no doubt that we're experiencing consciousness. That does not, of course, mean that we know the physical cause, nor does it give any indication of what the physical requirements are for consciousness to exist.
Sylvia.
No. It comes from one of the leading proponents of quantum computing.
AI at present is mainly directed toward tricking the dumber than a rock population of the USA to vote Trump in as President and of the UK to vote for Brexit. AI has trumped "humans" on (anti)social media.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
That is not mutually exclusive with being an artificial intelligence.
Are you saying Trump is self aware and we have witnessed the singularity?
-- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
It can't, but building a conscious entity in a computer would refute absolutely your claim that consciousness cannot be simulated.
In exactly the same way that prior to the Wright brothers heavier than air flying machines could not possibly exist or work.
It is likely that consciousness is an emergent property of any sufficiently large and complex network of computing elements. That will include simulations of the human brain once we can build a computer powerful enough to do that well enough. Then we can ask it.
BTW Plenty of animals are conscious but only a few are self aware.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
I disagree on "likely". It is "possible" in principle, but imo, unlikely. I agree that consciousness is an emergent property of a sufficiently large and complex network of computing elements, but I don't accept that that alone, is sufficient. Its needs more.
The only "consciousness" known, has came about due to Darwinian Evolution. This evolution has resulted in a machine that has evolved "goals". That is, an effective "purpose" that as a side line reports it to a VDU called "our consciousness". Our consciousness cant actually do anything, only a physical machine can take physical action.
I don't agree that "any sufficiently large and complex network of computing elements" will necessarily have the correct algorithms to produce consciousness. Its probably necessary though.
-- Kevin Aylward
If you have no way to demonstrate the entity was conscious means you can't prove it can be simulated.
Not at all. We have no means of demonstrating that consciousness exists other than in yourself, so it is meaningless to say it could exist in a simulation.
"Likely"??? How did you determine that?
??? I can't even verify that YOU are conscious.
-- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
tly
ugh
Iand
,We can agree to disagree on that point. I would concede that it might be a necessary but not sufficient condition for consciousness but until we try a nd fail with a sufficiently powerful computer several times I am not prepar ed to invoke random magyck as the ultimate answer. YMMV
n.
There are plenty of other conscious animals. We can make humans unconscious to perform medical procedures too. Self awareness is the more interesting property and it is clear that we are not alone in possessing that either. I t is even conceivable that some larger termite and ant colonies may possess it if we can become smart enough to understand their chemical languages.
I suspect that from the way dolphins play they are more intelligent than th e average human twitter/facebook follower. We can't read their language yet .
s,
rcal
It is a rather interesting state when the brain is awake but the physical m achine is immobilised by the sleep muscle inhibition (or vice versa when st ill asleep but people are able to sleep walk with apparent ease until they wake up).
ng
I don't think it will necessarily occur, but if you explore such a large co nnectivity hyperspace I think there is more than a sporting chance. The rel atively trivial Conway game of life on a 2D matrix with a 8 cell binary log ic neighbourhood is Turing complete. It doesn't take a lot of imagination t o consider what a matrix with a neighbourhood of around 10^4 nodes at varia ble distances might be capable of if left for long enough.
I suspect given that Googles latest Go program that evolved ab initio to be yond the one that learnt from all known human master games in less than two years we will not have all that long to wait before things get singularity interesting.
Regards, Martin Brown (posting from Google as Thunderbird flipped on your posting)
the average human twitter/facebook follower. We can't read their language y et.
If you look at human versus other species intelligence testing it is clear that in many cases other animals are much smarter than we in some areas. Ou r great asset is not smarts, it is our ability for complex communication, a llowing us to learn a lot more from each other.
NT
I think having an opposable thumb and living in a non-conductive environment plays a big part in our ability to use tools and do electronics. Hard to see how dolphins or orca could do either.
I suspect we are not far from the point where Googles deep mind project is powerful enough to translate one of the dolphin or whale languages.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
On Nov 16, 2017, Martin Brown wrote (in article ):
Also need to live in air, not water, or no fire, which means no metals to speak of, and no gigawatt power sources.
Not likely, for lack of any kind of rosetta stone. Humans are much better at figuring out unknown languages than any computer.
Joe Gwinn
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