On Tuesday, 2 March 2021 at 23:01:03 UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: ... ... It would make the headlights dim and such.
A point I forgot to make in my previous post.
In some cars, the alternator output voltage is raised to a fixed level if the headlights are on to avoid intensity variation.
No problem - but you did get me to put the rate of discharge into perspective.
-- ~ Liz Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk
Wow, what sort of UPS are you using? UPS batteries last me about five years, and I've never had one swell or leak before the UPS complained.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
The new fun is when you want to swap out some lights on your car that were designed to be incandescent with LEDs, finding a replacement that lies to the CANBUS well. Some cheap aftermarket ones just use a ballast resistor to try to fool it but I don't think this always works.
The Chevy Volt gen 1 used LEDs for all lighting except the low-beams which were halogens. The Gen 2 instead has LED low-beams and halogen high-beams but the brake lamps and turn signals are regular incandescent again like the 1990s, maybe to shave a few bucks on parts (the second-gen is improved in many ways but highly production-cost-optimized, they even removed the passenger-side vanity mirror lights much to my girlfriend's dismay.)
Replacements are just the same old Sylvania bulb they've been using for
35 years though, $3.99 for two at Wal-Mart so not the end of the world when they fail and they kindly made access to the bulb housings very simple.
Mostly APS of various vintages (some now quite elderly) and yes at about
5th or 6th year of continuous service. Never had one leak to be fair.I'll take a picture of the next really malformed one I pull out.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 10:22:52 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@kjwdesigns.com wrot e:
:cessive gassing.
hey reduce the current.
tioned it was 12.5V once the battery is estimated to be at a reasonably hig h SOC. A Chevy manual I read had three different voltages depending upon ci rcumstances (that one also had a 500 miles at a higher voltage for one time only when the battery was new.
t much unless you pump a huge current into it.
limit the voltage and let the current drop off
nes I have seen it can be seen around the battery ground lead.
"float" charge level, but I don't think cars do that.
ut a max current at whatever voltage the battery >takes, then cuts back the current at the max voltage.
if they control the headlight intensity, with LED lamps they could easily.
s managed, if the SOC is too low the feature is disabled on the ones I have read about.
You can't have it both ways. The battery is directly connected to the powe r bus. So the battery voltage is the power voltage. If they reduce the ba ttery voltage on reaching a fully charged state, the system voltage will al so drop making the headlights dim. Or are you saying the electrical system voltage in a modern car is regulated separately from the battery voltage? That would be pretty interesting!
-- Rick C. +-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
So then the battery sees the higher voltage and not the float voltage.
-- Rick C. ++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
My UPS has 100 kWh lithium ion battery with a 12V output.
-- Rick C. ---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Wednesday, 3 March 2021 at 13:04:31 UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote : ...
is managed, if the SOC is too low the feature is disabled on the ones I ha ve read about.
er bus. So the battery voltage is the power voltage. If they reduce the bat tery voltage on reaching a fully charged state, the system voltage will als o drop making the headlights dim. Or are you saying the electrical system v oltage in a modern car is regulated separately from the battery voltage? Th at would be pretty interesting! ...
You misunderstand; you did not read my subsequent post.
If the headlights are switched on the alternator voltage is set to a higher fixed value (probably 13.5-13.8).
Also, if the SOC is too low the engine stop-start feature is disabled.
Apologies for using my old nym. I'm not a shifter :)
Ray
I got home today with a package on the porch. Wow, the 4.8 W panel is big. 1 ft sq. (~30 x 30 cm) So first I made two measurements, open circuit voltage and voltage with 50 ohms (to-220) across it. (1 volt = 20 mA) Inside open 12.0V, V_50= 0.1V (2mA) outside; cloudy sky, open 16.4V, v50 2.3V 17.1 V, v50 2.8V Sun..late in day open 18.6, v50 6.7V ~130mA
Before cracking it open. (it has screws with rubber caps... nice.) I read the manual. "Note: This is a manual charger and will over charge a battery if permitted to operate for extended periods of time."... more And then recommends the SPC-7A charge controller ~$20 on amazon. So I'm thinking this only has a diode.. and maybe not even that? I figured I'd look inside before doing more measurements. It's just a solar panel! OK more leakage measurements to come. (who needs a stinking diode... hats off to Liz. :^)
George H.
On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 4:13:36 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@kjwdesigns.com wrote :
te:
OC is managed, if the SOC is too low the feature is disabled on the ones I have read about.
ower bus. So the battery voltage is the power voltage. If they reduce the b attery voltage on reaching a fully charged state, the system voltage will a lso drop making the headlights dim. Or are you saying the electrical system voltage in a modern car is regulated separately from the battery voltage? That would be pretty interesting!
er fixed value (probably 13.5-13.8).
You don't explain what I'm missing. You say the charging system runs the s ystem at different voltages and I'm agreeing with you. You seem to be sayi ng you won't see this in the head lights because they run at the higher vol tage when the headlights are on, but you seem to be missing the point. Tha t means the battery is charged at the higher voltage *regardless* of the st ate of charge. Doesn't everyone run with headlights on all the time? It' s a law on some roads in Maryland. It's also a PITA in my car. I have to go into a menu to turn off the auto headlights.
-- Rick C. ---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
torsdag den 4. marts 2021 kl. 01.58.45 UTC+1 skrev snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com:
te:
rote:
SOC is managed, if the SOC is too low the feature is disabled on the ones I have read about.
power bus. So the battery voltage is the power voltage. If they reduce the battery voltage on reaching a fully charged state, the system voltage will also drop making the headlights dim. Or are you saying the electrical syst em voltage in a modern car is regulated separately from the battery voltage ? That would be pretty interesting!
gher fixed value (probably 13.5-13.8).
system at different voltages and I'm agreeing with you. You seem to be sayi ng you won't see this in the head lights because they run at the higher vol tage when the headlights are on, but you seem to be missing the point. That means the battery is charged at the higher voltage *regardless* of the sta te of charge. Doesn't everyone run with headlights on all the time? It's a law on some roads in Maryland. It's also a PITA in my car. I have to go int o a menu to turn off the auto headlights.
some cars have running lights for use in the daytime instead of the main he adlights, anyway, why would you turn of the auto headlights?
m:
rote:
ry SOC is managed, if the SOC is too low the feature is disabled on the one s I have read about.
he power bus. So the battery voltage is the power voltage. If they reduce t he battery voltage on reaching a fully charged state, the system voltage wi ll also drop making the headlights dim. Or are you saying the electrical sy stem voltage in a modern car is regulated separately from the battery volta ge? That would be pretty interesting!
higher fixed value (probably 13.5-13.8).
.e system at different voltages and I'm agreeing with you. You seem to be sa ying you won't see this in the head lights because they run at the higher v oltage when the headlights are on, but you seem to be missing the point. Th at means the battery is charged at the higher voltage *regardless* of the s tate of charge. Doesn't everyone run with headlights on all the time? It's a law on some roads in Maryland. It's also a PITA in my car. I have to go i nto a menu to turn off the auto headlights.
headlights, anyway, why would you turn of the auto headlights?
Why are "some cars" significant?
That's how you turn on the headlights. On - Auto - Off Pick one. One of the more stupid issues with the car. What's worse in my opinion, there's no way to tell the car to leave them on other than when the car is off. If I turn the headlights on, when i stop the car to get out it reminds me rat her rudely that the headlights are still on.
-- Rick C. --+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Wednesday, 3 March 2021 at 16:58:45 UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote : ..
system at different voltages and I'm agreeing with you. You seem to be sayi ng you won't see this in the head lights because they run at the higher vol tage when the headlights are on, but you seem to be missing the point. That means the battery is charged at the higher voltage *regardless* of the sta te of charge. Doesn't everyone run with headlights on all the time? It's a law on some roads in Maryland. It's also a PITA in my car. I have to go int o a menu to turn off the auto headlights.
Daytime Running Lights are not a federal requirement and not all cars are f itted with them; neither of mine are. As you mention some states such as Ma ryland have running light requirements but not all, California doesn't exce pt for when windshield wipers are running. I just leave my Tesla and Prius in their Auto modes.
As you have commented Tesla doesn't make it easy to turn the lights on duri ng the day - I would like the icon on the display to be active.
When DRLs are implemented in the car the headlights are run at lower inten sity.
I don't know the details of many cars. But yes if the headlamps are always on then the 12v rail will run higher voltage than otherwise in cars with th ese features.
One of my cars in the recent past was a Chevy Spark EV for which I have the 3000 page workshop manual.The Chevy spark, although an EV, shares a great deal with the Chevy Volt so I wouldn't be surprised if the 12v battery mana gement is similar and maybe also to other Chevys.
The manual describes six operating modes for the 12v battery, including Bat tery Sulfation Mode (high voltage for a 5 minutes), Normal Mode (13.9-15.5 depending upon SOC), Fuel Economy Mode (12.6-13.2), Headlamp Mode (13.9-14.
5), Voltage Reduction Mode(12.9-13.2) and Plant Assembly Mode (Increased vo ltage(?) for the first 500 miles of the vehicle).The various modes are selected depending upon air temperature, battery curr ent, SOC, vehicle speed, windshield wipers, and a few other parameters.
Overall it is much more complex than the traditional fixed voltage system.
It seems that most newer cars *do* have DRLs; often, they share space (perhaps the actual lamps themselves?) with the turn signal indicators as I notice the DRL is *replaced* by the turn signal indication when the vehicles are signaling such.
(running the actual LED or HID headlamps is likely considered wasteful)
"Auto" isn't as smart as it could be as I notice it wants to turn the lights on when its not particularly dark (e.g., sitting under an overpass)
Newer cars tend to be a lot "smarter" than their predecessors. E.g., the rear window wiper will activate when the car is put in reverse *if* the front wipers are on (it will also operate when directly commanded to do so). Side mirrors tilt downward in reverse. Headlamps turn on when the wipers are on. Exiting the vehicle with your keyfob still inside will alert. Failing to put the car in PARK when turning off the ignition. Driving with a door/hatch open. etc.
One annoyance is driving with the trunk/hatch unsecured is difficult; there's often no place to secure a rope/bungee -- even if you "trick" the automatic pulldown into thinking the door is secured!
I'd need to carefully examine "forward facing" detection systems if I opted for such a purchase, in the future. I've seen vehicles have thermal problems when sitting with those sensors in the sun (when the vehicle is not in motion to provide airflow cooling)
Bet your laptop loves that. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
...
I agree, I was wrong about DRLs. They are common. Although I gather they co mmonly, as you say, do not use the dimmed headlights as was done originally done. In fact it is is not legal to use the headlights for this purpose in the EU because of the energy consumption.
According to Wikipedia, DRLs are not considered headlights and do not meet the requirements of having the headlights active in many areas (such as Cal ifornia when raining and probably Maryland as commented by RickC).
However in the context of changing the battery voltage they are not conside red to be having the headlights active so won't directly result in the char ging voltage changing.
)I thought that was a feature - they come on in conditions of high contrast or shadow where it is appropriate to have the headlights on for visibility even though not dark. ...
Yes, that can be a problem - I am involved in a design where that particula r scenario can result in ambient temperatures of 75C for the module plus th e heat gain form its own dissipation.
I suspect the reasons for the "alternative lighting" is similarly justified. As I said, the DRLs seem to use the same physical space on the vehicle as the turn signal indicators (perhaps multicolor LEDs?)
I suspect it is an arguable point. I just find them on when I'd not considered them necessary. But, want to leave them set to "auto" for convenience -- as well as to catch those cases when the sun is setting and it hasn't yet occurred to me that having them on would help improve my visibility to others!
We looked at some vehicles a few years back. While seated behind the wheel in one of them (can't recall Make/Model as we looked at a LOT of cars!), "error indicators" kept appearing on the dash: "System X failure"... "System Y failure"... "System Z failure"...
WTF?
Asked the salesman and he nonchalantly mentioned it was due to the car sitting in the sun (but not benefitting from the movement of air across the windshield -- behind which the electronics resided).
Hmmm... it's ALWAYS hot and sunny here. Does that mean those "systems" will shut down each time I sit at a "long traffic light"?
And you want HOW MUCH for them???
It's an interesting problem as it's not really practical to use any other form of cooling when it's attached to the surface through which you view the road! I suppose an active solution could be made cosmetically acceptable by exploiting the mirror mount, etc.
I wonder if "dash cams" suffer similar problems?
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