Outside antenna to improve public WIFI reception?

Is there such a thing as a external public WIFI antenna to improve performa nce? I'm getting a unusable signal inside my place after they did some sor t of upgrade. It used to work fine until it was upgraded. Now, I have to l ocate myself on a picnic table near the transmitter to get a reliable conne ction. They say they are working on the problems. I can stand outside my do or and it will work, but not inside. I was thinking of putting some sort of external antenna outside my door and just looping a couple turns of wire a round the netbook to get a better signal. But the frequency is either 2 or

5GHz so the antenna elements are very short and I'm not a antenna expert.
Reply to
billbowden10
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External antenna, of course (used to be, lots of WiFi adapters had sockets for external antennae). The antenna part, of course, isn't 'public'.

Search on ' WiFi antenna' or a visit to l-com.com will bring up lots of possibilities.

If range/signal strength is an issue, directional antennas are a possible solution. Outdoor systems are available for plug-and-play connections, or (if you have an antenna-connector available) an existing router might be made to serve (but cost of antenna and cable compatibility make that an unappealing prospect).

Reply to
whit3rd

How about a wifi extender mounted in a place it can receive?

Reply to
mike

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 12/19/2017 5:27 PM:

Who are "they"? You get free public wifi where you are? Cool.

There are wifi repeaters. Can you put on outside? Put it in a Tupperware box to keep it dry and it should work.

I have WISP, wireless internet. They use a outside receiver that terminates in an RJ-45 connector which goes to my inside router. If all else fails you can put a router and one of those outside to pick up the signal and beam it to another one indoors, but that is a lot more expensive than a simple wifi repeater. To know what might work you need to map the signal strength at different locations.

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Rick C 

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, 
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Reply to
rickman

you could install a bridge, that's like an access point operated in reverse, it speaks wifi and gives you a ethernet socket to connect to.

many access points can be configured as bridges,

A repeater is another option it receives an retransmits the wifi signale make them stronger.

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This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software
Reply to
Jasen Betts

In the spirit of DIY electronics look up Cantenna. Unfortunately you have to eat an entire tube of Pringles to make one.

Otherwise you can buy a high gain flat panel 12dB gain antenna and a USB dongle with removable antenna for about $50 all up. Seems a bit naughty to be stealing access to public Wifi from a private residence.

It need not be used outside to work well enough. Hung in a window facing the right direction will probably be good enough.

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Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

Through heat reflective glass there a good bit of attenuation.

Greg

Reply to
gregz

What type of device are you using on the WiFi. I'm wondering how well a passive system would work. Passive>> connect one antenna to another through a cable. Mount a flat panel 15db gain antenna outside and what ever is optimal for the inside. (would depend om whether you want whole house or one area coverage.) Cable type and length is important, cable has a lot of loss at these these frequencies. Need to know, 2.4 or 5GHz.

Here's a cheap one, may be indoor only.

Outdoor, but Yagi Style,

Higher gain, grid antenna

A bit of confusion/obfuscation about specs. Ad says 15db gain, spec sheet says 24dbi gain.

Maybe Jeff Liebermann will chime in with all the info you need.

Do you want to tell us any more about this public WiFi system?

Mikek

Reply to
amdx

High gain 5GHz antenna.

Reply to
amdx

Higher gain, grid antenna

The flat panels usually come as a range of gains in the same physical package - the Yagis gain varies with number of elements and length.

I have had some success bringing in distant 3G signals with a well pointed Yagi but the same Yagi coupled to a notional passive coupler allegedly to improve mobile phone pickup was a waste of space.

We have a problem at home with weak mobilephone network signal. Now have apps installed to run over the internet when it is available.

I could see no difference between the phone signal on the coupler or not on it in the same physical position. By comparison plugged into an active dongle a cheap Chinese 3G Yagi made the difference between a borderline 1 bar signal that would drop out if a bird flew by to 5 bars.

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Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

performance? I'm getting a unusable signal inside my ?place after they did some sort of upgrade. It used to work fine until it was upgraded. Now, I have to locate myself on a picnic table near the transmitter to get a reliable connection. They say they are working on the problems. I can stand outside my door and it will work, but not inside. I was thinking of putting some sort of external antenna outside my door and just looping a couple turns of wire around the netbook to get a better signal. But the frequency is either 2 or 5GHz so the antenna elements are very short and I'm not a antenna expert.

After thinking about it, I think I need an antenna that boosts the outgoing signal since the received signal strength says excellent inside my place, but I can't connect unless I go outside. I see some WIFI antennas at Wal-Mart that just plug into a USB port. but I'm not sure if they transmit or not. Any ideas on WIFI antennas that connect to the USB port and boost the signal both ways?

Reply to
Bill Bowden

Bill Bowden wrote on 12/20/2017 9:42 PM:

I have no idea what you mean by "WIFI antennas that just plug into a USB port". An antenna has to plug into a receiver and for wifi it will both transmit and receive. I think you are talking about a USB wifi interface. That will only help if you put the device outside.

Transmit and receive signal strength are impacted by exactly the same issues. The antenna that works ok for receive works just as well for transmit. What can be different is interference inside your home/office which you get away from outside. Try looking for sources of interference like 2.4 GHz phones.

--
Rick C 

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, 
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Reply to
rickman

Odd. The reversibility of light rays usually implies that if you have a good receive signal you also have a decent transmit too.

Normally what you do is buy a Wifi dongle with a detachable antenna and a higher gain antenna to put on it. I used this one from a UK surplus store to Wifi up the village hall with a high gain antenna at ~300m range and through several hefty brick walls.

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This is a newer chipset than mine but the same functionality.

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Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

LMGTFO

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Reply to
jurb6006

Nope. No description of what equipment he's using so I have no way to determine if an external antenna is even possible. At least he explained what he's trying to accomplish and what happened.

Suggestion: Use an external antenna and wireless client ethernet bridge. (You can do it with USB but it's easier with ethernet).

I recently bought a few new and used Ubiquiti NanoStation Loco M2 radios. These are designed for CPE (customer premises equipment) for WISP (wireless internet service provider) service. The built in antenna allegedly has 8dBi gain, which should be enough to improve the range without creating an antenna aiming problem. About $60 including shipping and tax.

If you want more gain, buy a panel antenna with 12 to 14dBi gain. You can get panels and dishes with more gain, but your antenna alignment will be critical. If anything moves in between you and the public wi-fi access point, you might have the signal drop out. Something like this (with an N connector) should work: If you get an antenna with an SMA connector, also get an SMA to N adapter.

For the radio, I suggest a Ubiquiti Bullet M2. About $70: I'm allegedly in the process of setting up such a system for the local Red Cross emergency trailer so they can have reliable internet access in their parking lot. I'm shooting through a concrete block building wall with no windows, so this is not going to be easy.

Setting up a Ubiquiti wireless bridge is potentially confusing and will require RTFM, Googling, experience, trial and error, and asking questions. I suggest doing this the easy way and setting up the radio as a router instead of a bridge. This way, you can connect more than one laptop, smartphone, IoT, gizmo, etc to the radio without dealing with configuration issues.

Now, can I go back to last minute computah fixes and billing my customers to support my decadent and lavish lifestyle?

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I was going to ask a question, but, do your work, bill it and then get some ice cream! Mikek

Reply to
amdx

All the antenna vendors lie about their gain (dBi) specifications, all the battery vendors lie about their battery capacity (ma-hr) specifications, and all the flashlight vendors lie about their luminous flux (lumens) specifications. Everyone lies, but that's ok, because few customers understand the specs.

The size parabolic grid arry you mentioned: has approximately 15dBi gain. In order to claim 24dBi, it would need to be larger, like this: Yet another science fiction polar gain plot. Sigh.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I haven't looked at USB wifi dongles for many years, once I got WiFi working on my boat I was happy. I used a dongle with a connector for the antenna, like this, but I know nothing about this one, although, I have had an Alfa on my boat for

8 or 10 years.

Then cable it to the patch antenna Jeff mentioned*. Now you can get distance between computer and antenna by using a long USB cable (best) or use a long RF cable (poor) because of loses in the cable. There is a limit on USB cable length, but then there are USB cable extender amps. >

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This one is 30ft long.

Mikek

  • I was about to ask Jeff about that antenna, it is only 4" square. seems small for a 12dbi 2.4GHz antenna. But I defer to Jeff. Soon he will accumulate enough for a double scoop and he will be back. :-)
Reply to
amdx

I have the 600 mw version of that dongle. A few problems:

  1. Looking at the spectra on a spectrum analyzer, I find that it looks somewhat distorted as in driving the amplifier too hard or running out of current for the power amp.
  2. I really doubt that it can deliver 1 watt. The efficiency of the various linear 2.4GHz power amps runs 10-25%. Assuming the rest of the circuit draws no power, that means 1 watt device will draw 4 to 10 watts from the USB 2.0 plug, which is not going to happen. Since USB
2.0 can deliver a maximum of 0.5A or 2.5 watts before shutting down, I would guess(tm) that maximum that a USB dongle can deliver would be 250 mw to 625 mw RF. USB 3.0 can do much better. I'll do some measuring when and if I drag myself to the office today.

USB extenders work, if you can figure out a way to supply them with sufficient +5V power. Besides the data in the inside pair having a limited cable distance, the DC loss in the +5V pair is also a factor. Most (not all) USB cables are #28awg. #28awg is 0.064 ohms/ft. A

30ft run as 60ft of wire or 3.84 ohms. At 0.5A, that's a loss of 1.92v. Will the remote USB radio dongle run on 3VDC for USB power? Probably not.

The single, linear polarization, rectangular patch antenna has a gain of about 8dBi. (The gain can be anywhere between 5 and 9dBi, but the consensus seems to be 8dBi gain). When you double the size of an antenna, gain increases by +3dB, minus any power splitter or interconnect losses.

Number of Lossless patches gain dBi 1 8 2 11 4 14 8 17 16 20

Well, that's the science fiction version. Reality tends to be much worse. Here's someone's college senior project: On Pg 21 he calculates and measures: Number of Calculated Measured patches Gain dBi Gain dBi 1 ?? 5.66 4 11.66 7.55 Notice that the gain of a single patch measures much less than an ideal patch, and the difference in gain between 1 patch and a 4 patch array is about 2dB, rather than the theoretical 2.5dB (that's 3dB gain minus 0.5dB splitter loss). In other words, theory is always better than reality.

Here's a typical "12dBi" 2x2 2.4GHz patch antenna:

Nope. I fell asleep in my overly comfortable office chair and gave up for the day. I go back today to do the last minute billing.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

L-com offers bulk USB 2.0 cable up with power conductors up to 20 AWG. [1] Fourteen foot runs of USB 2.0 bulk cable with 28 AWG power conductors are installed in my lab. This thread made me curious enough to take some voltage measurements. The measured voltage ranges from

5.04VDC for no load to 4.84VDC for an external 1TB hard drive load. USB 2.0's maximum allowed propagation delay limits cable length to 5 meters. [2] But, you can connect five hubs in series with six cables to increase the maximum overall length to 30 meters.

Note

  1. formatting link
  2. _USB Complete_ (Axelson)

Thank you,

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Don Kuenz, KB7RPU
Reply to
Don Kuenz

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