OT: "Unpopular speech"

Those things are not unpopular. Large groups of people agree with them, and then there are those that basically agree but don't want to say it because it is "politically incorrect" to do so.

It is like what Trump was saying about the Mexicans during his campaign. Apparently the majority of US citizens (as translated to electors) agree with that too.

Yep. My Hispanic in-laws (legal back several generations now) support a wall. ...Jim Thompson

What makes it even more ridiculous is that we have border fences, as every country does. It's only a matter of how long and how high the fence is. To say you should have no fence could be a moral argument, albeit a stupid one, but to act as though the length and hight of the fence is a moral issue is beyond absurd.

Most of the border _does_not_have_fence_! ...Jim Thompson

The problem here is not the uncontrolled immigration but the behaviour of those immigrants (2nd and 3rd generation) that are legal residents.

They are a small percentage of the population yet they from the majority in crime figures, especially street crime. And even though it is quite clear what the cause is (incapability of the parents to teach their children manners and morale, backward religious culture in a secular country), nothing is done by the political establishment.

This of course gives opportunity to "extremist" politicians that voice the concern of the people and ask for a solution.

Sad old git, you have nothing to say about electronics any more so you prowl low-rent political web sites all day.

I know that but some does. That's why it's just a matter of length. The left doesn't say that it's morally wrong to have any fence do they?

I don't find that true. The descendents of legal immigrants tend _not_ to be the problem. Around here (Phoenix and 'burbs) the direct illegals _are_ the criminals.

Closing the border will greatly improve the situation. Jailing repeat "returnees" will send a message. The Obama administration wanted cheap labor for the benefit of the Democrat Party Donors (AKA the closet KKK) who _use_ minorities for their personal benefit. ...Jim Thompson

I don't know... it's so hard to find substance amongst the whine >:-} ...Jim Thompson

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What do you call a basement full of leftists?

A whine cellar.

We were discussing the geert-wilders-is-convicted-of-saying-unpopular-things article. He was talking about Moroccans. They mostly are descendants of immigrants that came in the sixties and seventies. As a group they have a below-average IQ (because they came here being without a job and looking for unskilled labour, followed by 2 generations of inbreeding). They also value bullshit like Allah and Mohammed over values we have here, and even use it as an excuse for criminal behaviour. (their backward religion allows them to do anything to infidels)

And rightly so. Geert Wilders has been around Dutch politics for many years now - I once ran into him in a posh restaurant in Nijmegen, which was far enough from his family in Venlo to be a safe place (from potential assassin s) for him to get together with a few of his relatives.

He has made a business of being a "populist" - saying unpleasant things tha t expose the Muslim population to hatred, ridicule and contempt - while bei ng careful not to say anything that was actually actionable.

The fact that he has finally over-stepped the mark and had a conviction rec orded against him is gratifying - there was at least one court case where t he judge regretfully decided that he'd been careful enough not to actually earn a conviction, though he'd been unpleasant enough to earn a personal re buke.

What's less gratifying is that there was no penalty recorded against him. H e will have had to pay his legal costs, which would be substantial, but the y've bought him a lot more publicity, and there's no such thing as bad publ icity.

He's been notorious for long enough that it's part of his political stock i n trade. I can't imagine how anybody could vote for the creep, but I can't imagine how anybody could vote for Trump either - there's no accounting for personal taste, but people ought to prefer politicians with constructive a nd consistent policies.

It's also rude and socially disruptive. The rudeness doesn't matter. Gettin g minority communities riled up enough to riot isn't acceptable behaviour, and flirting with that level of rudeness isn't either.

Trump didn't get a majority of the popular vote - two million more people v oted against him than voted for him. He won by getting narrow majorities in the rust-belt states where his transparent lies about getting people their jobs back went down better than they should have done.

The problem with Trump is that he is a lying creep, with a lot of skill at finding the right lie for the right audience. People silly enough to fall f or the lies are silly enough not to notice that the lies changes from auDie nce to audience.

At least when talking to Jim Thompson.

There is no riot problem here. The problem is that those minorities have the backward culture/religion that allows them to be criminal against natives and other non-believers. There are way to many Maroccans living here that are behaving anti-socially, both in real criminal acts (robbery etc) and in unacceptable behaviour on the streets. There has to be a structural incapability teaching their children, probably religiously determined as well. (their culture considers women inferior to men, for example)

When you ask the general inhabitant of a big city "do you want more or less Moroccans", many people will reply "less". That is what he did, and that is the answer he got. The mistake he made was adding "then we'll arrange that".

Street crime correlates with poverty, rather than ethnic origin. And povert y does correlate with ethnic origin. Plenty of immigrants make it out of th e ghetto, but the whole group is disadvantaged.

Since the whole US takes religion a lot more seriously than most advanced i ndustrial countries, and imprisons a remarkably high proportion of it's cit izens, singling out immigrant communities as having a backward religious cu lture strikes the rest of the world as a trifle comic.

Extremist politicians who can't do statistics and consequently propose "sol utions" that wouldn't actually solve the problems.

"Extremist politicians" like Bernie Sanders who propose solutions that do w ork in other countries don't do as well.

There's always a market for simple solutions that the dumbest voter can und erstand, even if the "solutions" have never worked and haven't got a prayer of ever working.

Educating the electorate is supposed to cut into that demographic, but the US system doesn't spend all that much on educating the children of the poor , while being tolerably extravagant on the children of the better off (who live in school districts that collect more in property taxes).

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An implausible claim. Cheap - illegal - labour appeals to capitalists, who tend to vote Republican. Trade unions aren't happy about cheap illegal impo rted labour stealing their jobs, but if they can unionise them and get them paid the same rate as the locals they get a good deal happier.

The proposition that the Democratic Party is even more under the thumb of G oldman Sachs than the Republicans are under the thumb of the Koch brothers (and their ilk) isn't all that convincing, but Jim - in his pig-ignorant wa y - find this perfectly plausible.

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The claim about the below-average IQ needs to be validated. Immigrants tend to be smarter than stay at homes. People like Richard Lynn make business o f measuring low IQs in non-European racial groups, but they tend to select the results they pay attention to. Sadly, there is no such thing as a cultu re-free IQ test (though Raven's progressive matrices come closer than most0 .

The Muslim religion is unique in recognising Jews and Christians as "people of the book" and requiring them to be treated them as dhimmis in Muslim st ates. Since Jews and Christians don't have the same obligation, it's their religions that are backward. Fundamentalist Muslims, like fundamentalist Ch ristians, are famous for ignoring their rules when they fell like it but it 's foolish to blame this kind of psychopathic behavior on the religion, rat her than the individual psychopaths involved.

AFAICT they are just laughing at the plan to finance it. I don't suppose any of you Trump supporters wants to buy a bridge?

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tting minority communities riled up enough to riot isn't acceptable behavio ur, and flirting with that level of rudeness isn't either.

It's not the culture or the religion. It's just the small criminal minority within that minority that behaves much the same as the criminal minority w ithin every other social group, but gets more publicity whenever it transgr esses.

There are plenty of other anti-social people around, but their activities d on't feed Geert Wilders' (or the local equivalent's) propaganda mill so the y don't get as much publicity.

That's what he offered. Geert Wilders has never been in a position where he could deliver, and in a country where coalition government is the rule, he still wouldn't be able to deliver if he was part of the government (which is unlikely - the Dutch remember the List Pim Fortuyn and what a bunch of u ncooperative psychopaths they were).