My son, Aaron, software engineer turned farmer, has acreage in the San Tan Valley with no source of electric power.
He'd like some artificial light for his chicken coop to increase the egg output.
Lighting and timers are easy to find off-the-shelf, but I need some pointers toward finding a good quality solar panel that can charge a
12V car battery.
Thanks in advance. ...Jim Thompson
-- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at
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| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
The initial electrification of farms came with wind power, to charge batteries to run the radio and maybe power some lighting. All wiped out as cheap electricity was brought via wire by things like the TVA.
Wind has the advantage that it's there in the dark, has the disadvantage that there's no power when there's no wind.
The trick forty years ago, for those not salvaging and rebuilding scrapped wind generators from the thirties, was to use a car alternator and link that to some propellor. There was always the Savonius turbine, which is an old concept but has the generator vertical. Forty years ago, people played with those, cutting a metal drum in half and offsetting the halves to make the "propellor". I think people tried them with car alternators, but I can't remember.
If there is running water, there's always some sort of stream powered generator.
--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?
Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Thanks, Tim! Reminds me that maybe the son can get a free ride courtesy of the other taxpayers... I always enjoy sticking it to the liberals for their own give-away's ;-) ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
That's not a simple question. I don't know the weather in San Tan Valley. Optimal solution depends a lot on the size of the coop, amount of lighting needed and whether the chickens respond to the spectrum of efficient lighting. CFL's can often run on DC.
Shipping can be a significant cost if you buy one panel from china. For a small system, it might be better to get whatever is available locally. Overstock from a local solar installer? They show up on craigslist from time to time.
If you have the option to start with a clean slate, higher voltage panels tend to be cheaper/watt.
You said, "car battery". I hope you meant deep-cycle battery designed to survive this kind of abuse.
Problem with solar lighting is that you need more light when there's less solar available.
You might find that you need a higher voltage panel to get enough charge at times of low insolation. Then you have too much power at times of high insolation. You're gonna need some form of charge controller. It's popular to use a MPPT controller, but it's easier to just waste the excess power. You got nowhere to save it anyway. Big shunt regulator. You're likely to need hardware to limit charge and discharge levels. A timer is likely to create an endless supply of ruined batteries.
A solar installation is more about the weather than the technology.
Of course, the problem isn't as simple as that. Virtually *any* panel can "charge a 12V car battery". The amount of charge per unit time tends to be the more interesting question. Especially if, as suggested, he plans on drawing off some of that charge daily (nightly).
What are his power needs (Watt-hours)?
What are his storage requirements (cloudy days)?
~100W panels are in the ~$100-300 range. But, that assumes he has a location in which the panel can deliver the maximum output. And, that the panel is suitably protected from cooking itself, etc.
A power point tracker (MPPT) can squeeze the most bang out of the power available from the panel -- at the cost of some efficiency losses. (It also can allow the output of the panel a greater range of operating voltages -- even LESS than the battery requires -- to make useful power out of what might otherwise be unusable power.) And, it can provide the isolation of the battery from the panel(s) in no/low light conditions. (you don't want the batteries discharging into the panel(s))
How much daylight is available (and the "quality" of that daylight)?
Does he want to use a tracker to maximize output during the daylight hours available?
What environmental extremes does he have to worry about that could interfere with collection or the durability of the equipment (hail, high winds, etc.)?
How much "area" does he want to dedicate to panels?
How much does he want to spend on panels, equipment, batteries (which will need to be replaced with some regularity), maintenance, etc.?
Since the downside seems to be relatively harmless (i.e., he gets no more eggs than he was able to produce *currently*), he may opt to look for an "80-20" result -- saving money, complexity, etc. in exchange for the "majority" of the benefits available.
Some more detailed knowledge of laying patterns/behavior might give clues as to solutions that don't require the "obvious" outlay (of "light"). E.g., if you increase the light 10 minutes out of every 15, do you gain *almost* all the benefits of having the light at the higher level for the *full* 15 minutes? (I have no interest in avian reproductive cycles so he'd be the obvious "expert", there)
If he's got a cheap source for "discardable" batteries, he can just let the panels boil off electrolyte and replace the batteries more often than would otherwise be necessary. Ideally, he wants to use deep discharge batteries (like for maritime/golf cart use). If you know anyone who owns a battery manufacturing facility... :> (Or, someone who maintains a fleet of electric utility vehicles -- fork lifts, etc. -- their discards often have considerable remaining service life) Pay attetion to where the batteries are *housed* (to increase useful life *and* protect against H2 accumulation, spills, etc.)
Or, look into other technologies (wind is commonly used and I've friends who've built small hydro plants on their properties). Other technologies tend not to suffer from the diurnal nature of "sunshine" -- working, often, round the clock (e.g., hydro). OTOH, they tend to be more mechanical and requiring of maintenance.
Presently, I use a bunch of ~half-sq-ft panels harvested from cheapy landscape lighting sets and just *cook* the batteries. I wanted a semi-portable configuration (I "fold up" the panels making transport easier than a single large 4-5 sq ft panel) I arranged for the PV's to be deliberately shaded for much of the day to cut down their output without requiring any mechanical or electronic signal conditioning (I have access to a supply of deep discharge batteries). But, we only use the power for landscape lighting (having recently replaced the 20W lamps with 3W LED laps) and the irrigation pump (which only is needed during Monsoon).
I've designed an MPPT to control the charging but haven't had the need to do so, yet (perhaps when my supply of batteries becomes more constrained -- or, if it ever looks like we will have *two* consecutive days WITHOUT sunshine :-/ )
There is a wealth of information available on the WWW for this sort of thing. And, probably a lot of his "peers" already having gone down this road...
Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Harbor Freight has a complete solar power system;panel,charger/controller and battery advertized in their last circular. but you can probably do better.
AND,you don't want to use a CAR L-A battery,they are for intermittent,high current-draw applications, You want a deep-discharge battery.
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
It would be very interesting to see the math on this project. How much increased egg production are we talking about? Do chickens eat more when they lay more? And how does that compare with just adding more chickens? Do you light the whole coop? Or just put a little helmet with an LED on each chicken? I find tricking biology more interesting than brute force electronic technology.
How does egg production affect morbidity? Quality of eggs produced?
I wonder how that scales. The family of a kid I grew up with had a chicken coop on their property (one of the few families that farmed chickens). That building was easily 24 ft wide,
80 ft long and three stories high. Lighting it "off grid" for any length of time (*minutes*) would require a sizable investment!
OTOH, with that many chickens...
Exactly. How much can you get for how *little* you need to invest.
The Harbor Freight solar systems is on sale for $149. check Mechanics Ill or Pop Mech for coupon. is 45 watts total max has three solar panels (total 45w) has a really crappy bracket to hold all panels. includes hookups for a deep discharge battery (not included, get at Wal-Mart for around $90.00) a USB device connector (no devices supplied) two 12V fluorescent bulbs that are included, plug both in for two lights. all wiring to hook up components and to the battery. has a cigarette lighter socket.
It all works OK but not sure about long term.
Unfortunately the power box is only for three panels so adding more solar panels to one box is not an option. Not sure about paralleling two boxes to one battery. Schematic is available. Harbor Freight website has free PDF manual download.
I have two systems and have modified the brackets to properly retain the panels.
--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to snipped-for-privacy@netfront.net
I'll ask for more detail, but, AIUI, chickens seem to do best at egg laying at an approximately 14 hour "day".
So we're going to count 10 hours from sunset, turn on the lights, then turn off at dawn (they do better with abrupt "lights-on", than abrupt "lights-off" :) ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Those panels are amorphous silicon, so not very efficient. In other words, they are inexpensive, but they only generate perhaps half as many watts per square meter as fancier (mono- or poly crystalline)/spendier panels.
If you have the space, though, they're a good way to go.
"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
Visit alt.energy.homepower
And when your ready to buy go to
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They have the best prices.
A few pointers.
1,You need to figure out your battery bank capacity base on your load.
2, find out how long you want the battery bank to last if there is no sun (in days)
3, how many hours a day does your location get (there are charts from NREL
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4, Don't deep discharge your batteries. Aim for 50% -30% discharge (Big batteries, NO golf cart batteries here)
5, Buss voltage 12, 24 or 48vdc? Panels come in different configurations.
6, Stick with Polycrystalline panels
7, NEC, The system needs to be installed to Code. most of the code pertaining to solar installs came from Wileys Code corner
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NEC
2008 had the updates. Check with the local authorities for permits.
8, You'll need a good charge controller (MPPT) and an alternate AC-line charger.
9, If the cost of running Utility power is less than Solar then that is the way to go.
I'll check out your links, and battery suggestions. Thanks, Martin! ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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