OT: Senior Birthday Greetings from the White House

HAHAHAHA- isn't that the truth!

If you liked a spoof of W's supposed geriatric callousness, you'll enjoy policy wonk / Obama adviser Robert Reich here *actually say* the gov't is going to having to let old people die and cut back on medical innovation, because both are too costly.

Cheers, James Arthur

That audio is out of context and has been debunked.

I don't believe it. Gruber said the same things, as have Obama's advisers (e.g. Ezekiel Emmanuel). The President himself has said as much too. It's part of their program.

I agree with the statements as objective facts: someone has to place limits somewhere. I simply disagree, in a free country, that the government should make those choices. We should.

Not believing in a free country--and believing that the government should take other people's things to provide your care--those beliefs unavoidably include government deciding who gets care, and how much. That's what centralized management is--deciding those things.

Cheers, James Arthur

At the VA, the time limit for hospice care appears to be 6 months. So, you must promise to die within 6 months to be admitted.

Hospice is a comfort based form of care for Veterans who have a terminal condition with 6 months or less to live. Hospice Care provides treatment that relieves suffering and helps to control symptoms in a way that respects your personal, cultural, and religious beliefs and practices. Hospice also provides grief counseling to your family. .

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Den fredag den 13. marts 2015 kl. 02.17.33 UTC+1 skrev Bill Bowden:

well, if you don't expect to die within the next 6 month should you be in a hospice waiting to die?

-Lasse

No. You should be at home. My son Duane (at age 33) was in Hospice for 3 days before he died of terminal colon cancer... the only reason he was there was to legally be able to get all the dope necessary to control the pain :-( ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142     Skype: skypeanalog  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

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joy

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ion,

They may have said things that your remarkably selective attention interpre ted as "the same thing". Your capacity for understanding statements in a wa y that suites your prejudices is well known, and frequently jeered at.

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Each one of us, on our own, making our choices in complete isolation?

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The process of setting common criteria - so every choice can be made on the same basis - necessarily has to include everybody involved.

In this sense, an elected government is a form of centralised management.

Your idea of a "free country" seems to be a close approximation to an non-c ountry.

In reality, you are perfectly happy that the government should take other p eoples things to provide for your defense, your law enforcement and your ro ads.

Your principles only kick in when they take stuff to provide for your healt h, your education, and your welfare.

The fact is that the Swedish government take 65% of the Swedish GDP in taxe s and uses it to produce a economically successful country with a positive balance of trade (which the US hasn't managed since Reagan came to power). Germany take almost as much - between 45% and 50% - spends even more of it on training the German work force, which has more tertiary education (quite a bit of it in apprenticeships) than anybody else's - and exports almost a s much as the US (which has four times the population) and two-thirds as mu ch as China (which has a even bigger population which currently demands rat her lower salaries).

You aren't interested in the good of the US economy. You are interested in minimising your own tax bill. It's a short-sighted approach.

rnments around in 1850 (when he died) who were collecting that much in taxe s, and consequently no examples of the advantages of spending that kind of money on improving the performance of the work force. Your brain seems to w ork on the principle that nothing worth paying any attention to happened in politics after 1850.

This is a bit odd in an electronic engineer ...

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Jim, I can thing of nothing worse than a parent losing a child. Having been there, you have my sympathy.

This happened in 2005, I appreciate the empathy, I still struggle with children are supposed to outlive their parents. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142     Skype: skypeanalog  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

It's bizarre you don't know your own team's positions or understand the ramifications of your policies.

Of course. My family decided when to take Grandma home knowing she was done, gone. The hospital would've kept her forever.

I don't believe the government should be deciding who lives and dies.

That's because you don't believe people can or should run their own affairs.

Of course. If you'd read anything serious instead of all that moocher drivel, you'd understand--peoples *create* national governments to protect life, liberty, and property. That's the *purpose,* the reason, that's what people agreed to make common cause on.

You'd invert that into *taking* and redistributing life, liberty, and property, the very things the government was formed to prevent.

Cheers, James Arthur

Don't worry about the six month problem, under Obamacare Jonathan Gruber's got that handled for you.

Cheers, James Arthur

On Thursday, March 12, 2015 at 7:53:46 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote :

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joy

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And your knowledge of how the US health care system works is how extensive? The majority of care is now, and has been for a very long time, prescribed by NIH guidelines, every last bit of it. You can consider it as a pool of best practices known at the time, it does change. Your health care provider follows it to the letter whether you're aware of it or not. When it comes to end of life, usually a deviation from established practice gets you deep into charlatan territory populated by criminal quacks attempting to take y our insurance coverage to the last penny of its lifetime limit. No one is d enied reasonable health care and the guidelines are very thorough, you shou ld be thankful they exist because without them you definitely would have se rious profit maximizing abuse on the part of so-called doctors working unde r the "well, they were going to die anyway" assumption, which is actually n ot uncommon especially among the younger set.

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That's a fancy way of saying they dope you out of your mind with morphine. The 6 month limit seems VERY long. The private hospitals get impatient aft er a week. Hospice looks a lot like euthanasia to me. They pull the plug on everything except the morphine so of course you're going to die, and soon, all non-immediate life support medical intervention is otherwise terminate d.

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I think Jonathan smokes dope and knows his pain killers..I saw something about hospices required to report on the quality of pain killers and suffer penalties if they were not up to standard. But they need money for other stuff so hospice gets a 17 billion cut anyway.

"Robert Moffit, senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation's Center for HealthPolicy Studies, explained that Obamacare has long been predicted to cuthospice services by $17 billion. "This is the report delivered on July 24,2012, by the Congressional Budget Office," Moffit explained. "There's noexcuse for people being surprised by any of this.""A lot of these savings are going to be used to pay for the Obamacareexpansions through Medicaid and the subsidy program," Moffit said, pointingto a "shift of funding from Medicare to the entitlement expansions inObamacare." In a report from May 2013, Moffit totaled the Medicare cuts dueto ObamaCare - the number came to $716 billion.

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rpreted as "the same thing". Your capacity for understanding statements in a way that suites your prejudices is well known, and frequently jeered at.

What makes you think that Obama and Gruber are "my team"? They are US polit icians working within the US poltical straight-jacket. They tend to do less offensive things than the barbaric clowns that you support, but that doesn 't make them "my team".

No. You are happy to accept the responsibility, despite the fact that you d on't know enough to properly appreciate what is going on.

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the same basis - necessarily has to include everybody involved.

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on-country.

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Wrong. It's in those of their affairs which interact with other people's af fairs where the situation gets complicated.

er peoples things to provide for your defense, your law enforcement and you r roads.

It's some of them. Preventing plagues is another, which you resolutely igno re.

Getting everybody educated has been taken on by most governments in recent generations. The US central government and state governments seem content t o leave this to individual communities, which means that rather fewer US ki ds get all the education they could use. Bright kids from low-income backgr ounds do better in most other advanced industrial countries.

Nobody was rich enough when the founding tax evaders were cobbling up their constitution to contemplate educating everybody, so it wasn't in their gam e plan.

Redistributing life, liberty and property happens every time a government c onscripts soldiers and sends them off to die in a war being paid for by tax es.

Do try and avoid nonsense slogans. It reveals the shallowness of your think ing.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney