OT: Propane prices

Tell me again why people buy tankless water heaters?

I don't think there's enough density there to justify the expense.

Watch it! Thompson might plonk you.

Krw deserves a lot more criticism than he gets - I'd be failing my civic duty if I missed any opportunity to give him a hard time, and you can't rationally argue that he doesn't deserve the harsh words - which won't stop you.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Again? I don't recall telling you in the first place.

A good shower might take roughly 8 or 10 kilowatts for a tankless electric water heater here.

Our incoming water here is ice cold. A good heat exchanger would probably save, say, 20% of our water heating cost. Not worth the hassle as a retrofit.

John

t

d.

=A0 =A0 =A0 ...Jim Thompson

Surely this is a fated to be courted rather than avoided. The slob is on the road at the moment, out of reach of his filters, and his reaction to my agreeing with him - for once - was to imply that I'm getting Alzheimers (despite the fact that he is at appreciably greater risk of developing the disease, being older, monolingual and having spent fewer years in formal education).

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Um, I didn't say you did.

My boiler was my "tankless" water heater in the previous two houses. 125K BTUs worth of water heater (~20kW output). In the middle of the Winter no one had better use hot water while you're in the shower.

Where do you propose to exchange heat to/from?

serious

Wastewater from the shower and dishwasher could preheat the cold-water feed to the water heater, then become grey water for the garden. There are commercial heat exchangers to do this, and greywater systems, so it's not absurd. But as a retrofit, at today's cost of natural gas, it wouldn't pay off. Our gas+electric bill runs maybe $130 a month so there's not a huge headroom for savings. We don't have a/c, and the climate pretty mild.

I could do it to Save The Earth..... or not.

John

per

serious

budget

now?

By the time it gets to the drain there isn't enough delta-T to matter, at least in a passive system. OTOH, you probably could pump heat to (or from) it. There isn't that much, though.

d $2.70

BTUs per

e serious

e budget

it now?

2. >

oes up

ht.

.

to

e but

s not

opane

re

, t 125K

r no one

o

How's the G & E prices in N.CA? Our G is much cheaper than E in S.CA. But people don't seems to believe me.

Its more or less the same weird situation here. NL has a really huge supply of natural gas but still the price is connected to the oil price. Its like paying tax for the cherries that grow on the cherry tree in your own back yard.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

snipped-for-privacy@fonz.dk schrieb:

Hello,

modern combinations of gas and steam turbines are much better than 30 %, the best ones over 60 %. The gas turbine must resist very hot gas.

Bye

With propane this is not a problem but I've experienced car fuel from no-name gas stations can be seriously less economic (around 10% less milage) than the branded ones.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

2.70

s per

erious

udget

now?

t

Wow! I filled up with heating oil in the spring. ~$2.50/ gal. We use about 500 gallons a year. (Nice cold winters in Buffalo, NY)

George H.

$2.70

per

serious

budget

now?

up

one

Don't know. I'll check the next time a bill comes in.

John

OK, now we understand your definition of "community spirit."

John

e d

Community spirit doesn't just involve being nice to people. Creeps like krw who contribute nothing except me-too and the occasional snide accusation need to be made to feel that they are appreciated - in this case deprecated - for what they are. It seems unlikely that krw could ever raise his game, but he might be persuaded to go away.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Yes, I've seen that as well. The engine tended towards pinging with the cheap stuff.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

ound $2.70

ss BTUs per

some serious

the budget

ing it now?

2011.

e goes up

right.

now.

hat to

fine but

does not

propane

more

so,

at

ive

gs

ment

=A0125K

nter no one

y to

Yes, i was asleep for a while, together with the PUC. But that should be their job, not mine. Using total estimated 1500KWhr, our electric bill would be $282. I will go all gas with Grid connected power injector. I fully expect the utility to sue me, so I can counter with Price Gouging. I think we are paying the highest marginal E$ in the country.

5MBTU =3D 1500KWhr 60% =3D 900KWhr

G: $1.2 per therm E: $0.11 for 400, $0.22 for 400+

All G: 60

3/5 G + 2/5 E: 36 + 40 =3D 76 All E: 40 + 242 =3D 282

This endless, pointless bickering only chases away those who really could contribute or learn something here.

"Wie de schoen past, trekke hem aan."

Jeroen Belleman