OT: Propane prices

Hi Folks,

Just got a quote for propane summer delivery, California, around $2.70 per gallon. Yikes! That's more than gasoline and it's got less BTUs per gallon.

I guess I have to accept in the next few hours. Or is there some serious hope it'll become cheaper in August? If Washington screws up the budget ... maybe not ... ? Anyone else holding out or are y'all buying it now?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg
Loading thread data ...

Is that delivered ??

Or do you have to go get it your self.

Reply to
hamilton

No, delivered. The tank is leased from the propane company. So we can only buy from that company. I have double-checked pricing with another and it was about the same. They nickel and dime a bit for delivery, fuel surcharges, reg fees and whatnot. So technically delivery is no longer fully included in that per gallon price.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

Well, I just swallowed hard and put in the order. Ouch.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

How much propane do you use?

As people in China and India and Brazil and such reach for middle-class lives, with electricity and cars and meat and all, and with the dollar fixing to degrade, expect everything, especially food and energy, to get a lot more expensive. Some sort of American/European golden age of plenty will be over soon.

The USA has lots of natural gas and can grow lots of food, but it's still a world market.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

r

us

t
?

It's all marketing, supply and demand. Our electricity (marginal rate) is double that equivalent propane, but our natural gas in half of that. They extract propane from natural gas well, so drilling cost is not that much more. They burn natural gas for electricity, but at

4x cost?
Reply to
linnix

Actually, not much. Fill up will be 190 gallons and that's for a year. Last year we paid $1.70, so the difference will be almost 200 bucks. Oh well.

Now imagine a family that barely squeaks by and did not switch to wood heating like we did. It'll eat them alive. That's the main rason I asked, there's lots of elderly people on fixed income out here who must heat with propane.

Yup. Only public service employees will continue in the golden ages with their fat pensions, courtesy of the taxpayer (meaning us).

People out here are gradually starting to grow their own stuff again, including animals for their meat supply. That might not be all that bad.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

70

per

ious

get

ow?

I think a steam turbine powerplant is only around 30% efficient if you only need the electricity, and they need to maintain it and distribute to the electricity so it isn't that far of is it?

I just checked, here a m^3 heating oil is ~2100usd, that's ~8usd/ gallon

-Lasse

Reply to
langwadt

Ouch! Ok, I won't complain about propane prices then :-)

Hint: Get a wood stove. That's what we did. As long as you guys in Europe keep eating California almonds around Christmas we will have a perpetual supply of renewable almond orchard wood. It's great, similar to oak.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

The latest history I can provide is $2.50/gal back on Feb 9, 2011.

This was from Ferrellgas in Texas. I've noticed that the price goes up and down with the price of gasoline.

Reply to
John S

2.70

s per

erious

udget

now?

t

Direct gas generators are 50% to 60%, including my 60A unit. And I am using less than half of the capacity of the generator. Even so, i pay around $20 of gas to reduce $80 of electricity. Don't forget that they already have a mark-up on my natural gas.

Reply to
linnix

s

I think I remember that propane is mainly a derivative of oil, so that makes sense. Some of it may be a byproduct of making fuels like gasoline.

Reply to
Simon S Aysdie

CA is more expensive than in TX, so those $2.70 could be about right. Anyhow, we'll get it delivered for that price end of the month now.

If the price climbs any higher we'll have to think about with what to replace the water heaters that are getting old. They are still fine but considering that one gallon of propane contains 27kWh the math does not look so favorable. Electric heat is nearly 100% efficient, with propane some of that energy goes out the flue.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

.70

per

rious

dget

now?

st

t

have district heating here, with a powerplant, a cement factory and a heating plant burning waste nearby it is much cheaper (and mandatory)

we pay by the m^3 at 40C cooling 1MWh is ~45usd

if I got all the btu/gallon btu/MWh conversions right I think that is about half of what you pay for propane

-Lasse

Reply to
langwadt

Think about what happens when snow/ice/tree limb loading breaks power lines. Propane is good then. I've saved busted water pipes by using the oven to warm the house enough to ward off freezing. Safety precautions are in order, of course.

In the country, I want both power sources.

Reply to
John S

Actually, thermodynamically, resistive electric water heating is more like 15% efficient. But you need a heat pump to do better than resistive heating. Heat pump water heaters are expensive, $3K or so, and dump cold air!

John

Reply to
John Larkin

Where do you get your electricity from?

I doubt the total system efficiency is even 50% if you are getting it off the grid.

Reply to
Simon S Aysdie

$2.70

TUs per

serious

budget

it now?

od

ost

at

that's sounds high, how many kwh per m^3 gas do you get ?

-Lasse

Reply to
langwadt

Well, we have wood heat. Propane is only backup for heating the house and we pretty much use it only for water heating, on account of propane being not competitive in price any longer. Ok, we'd have to take ice cold showers then. But as our drill sergeant used to say, anything that doesn't instantly kill you will make you strong.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

Well, I look at it from a cost POV. With this inflationary pricing propane is quickly losing its luster. Back in the 90's it was a buck a gallon and that was ok. Now closer to $3, not ok.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.