ot opening day

Tahoe Donner is finally opening today.

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Sugar bowl has been partially open for a week or so.

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It's been warm and wet in California, more rain than snow. The weather here is very erratic from year to year, with no apparent long-term patterns since good records were kept starting in the mid 1800s.

Judah Lodge, and Mt Judah, and the Judah Loop of the PCT, and Judah Street in San Francisco, are named for Theodore Judah, a prime creator of the transcontinental railroad and the associated telegraph lines to the west coast. That's a cool story.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

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jlarkin
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No patterns??

See page 11 (page 26 pdf) of this link:

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Reply to
Klaus Kragelund

Snow depth at the Sierra summit has been measured the same way since the mid-1800s. It's very erratic but has no obvious trend.

I don't much trust long-term temperature records. It's hard to measure temperature, the sensors move, and the weather patterns on the US west coast are very erratic. This year has so far been warm and wet.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

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jlarkin

Yeah, but... a summit is a small, non-representative bit of ground. Bad choice, neither 'average' nor 'random', if the intent is to gauge climate.

Records are how you determine 'erratic', are they not? How can you say you don't trust them, then voice such a characterization?

Temperature is easy to measure. Motion of sensors is not important, the relativistic effects are not significant for normal earth, water and wind velocities.

Reply to
whit3rd

John Larkin take Anthony Watts seriously, and Anthony Watts has a bee in his bonnet about Stephenson screens

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It got him enough of a following to get him recruited into the denialist propaganda machine, and his ignorance is exploited by people who want to ignore historical temperature records.

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You need to read John Larkin's posts about climate matters on the basis that he's a gullible sucker for denialist propaganda.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

We get our water from the snowmelt, after we ski on it, so it matters long-term.

I'm amazed I'd have to explain anything so simple, so I won't.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

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Reply to
jlarkin

d

e.

But you don't get much of it from the snow-fall at the summit, which was th e point being made.

you don't trust them, then voice such a characterization?

The simplicity is all in John Larkin's ideas about what is going on (most o f which he gets from denialist propaganda web-sites). He isn't going to exp lain any of it because he can't do it for himself, and when he trots out hi s authorities he gets reminded that he looks like a gullible twit.

His authority for not trusting historical records is Anthony Watts, who is part of the climate change denial propaganda machine.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

Amazed, no. You're embarassed, because you've painted yourself into an epistemological corner. You can't deny the data AND use it both.

Reply to
whit3rd

Not a bit embarassed. The Sierra snow depth measurement data is dependable, and the depth data is very noisy on the time scale of a few years but has no strong trend.

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This makes sense, since snow at any point is strongly affected by the "atmospheric river" effect. 2011 was awesome. We skiied on the 4th of July.

The global temperature record is, in my opinion, not likely to be accurate. The instrumentation has changed, the collections sites have moved, mostly to warmer locations, and the data has been corrected to increase the warming trend.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

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jlarkin

Right. Quickly -- what's the accurate absolute temperature of ? Now graph that over 200,000 years.

(If measuring temperature were simple they wouldn't need to constantly adjust their raw data with 'correction' factors to correct for new errors, nor would it take decades of fiddling with Finnegan's Finagling Factors to figure those out.)

Cheers, James

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

This is pure denialist propaganda. John Larkin gets his "opinion" from Anthony Watts who gets paid by the Heartland Institute to peddle his silly idea.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 7:48:57 AM UTC+11, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wro te:

u say you don't trust

1

If you've got 800,000 years of ice core data, you can.

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"Past precipitation can be used to reconstruct past palaeoclimatic temperat ures. ?D and ?18O is related to surface temperature at middle and high latitudes."

,

Nobody said that measuring temperatures in the remote past was simple.

Writing off the science involved as Finnegan's Finagling Factors is the kin d of rhetorical fraud that James Arthur persistently practices.

He doesn't like the results, so he lies about them. It's the same approach that claimed that Mann's "hockeystick" curve was fraudulent - and still doe s even through it has been confirmed as essentially correct by a dozen diff erent and completely independent studies using a variety of proxies for his torical temperatures.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

Silly question; our planet has a molten core, you know, and... is not at thermal equilibrium. It doesn't HAVE a single temperature. Neither do you (unless you have died).

Climate change is serious stuff, we don't need injected silliness.

Reply to
whit3rd

That can't be true. It can't even be false, you have given no indication of the requirement for accuracy. Nor can you handle abstractions such as 'likely' without some kind of chaperone, you cheeky little imp!

... over centuries, yes, it has. That's called 'progress', 'maintenance', 'innovation'.

due to global warming, all locations are becoming warmer, is that what you mean?

False. That's a conspiracy theory, I presume (and you've never TESTED the theory, which makes it suitable only for sanity-testing... it's not sane at all).

Reply to
whit3rd

whit3rd wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

We need to manage our fresh water first, and AS we look at the effects we HAVE ALREADY caused, and try to mitigate some of what IS coming down the pike. There are water starved nations all over the planet.

On climate though...

Essentially, we waited too long. The window of opportunity to fix it completely has passed. We ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED by our centuries long ignorance. So all we are doing now is treating the symptoms of an already metastatized situation.

Get all the greedy profiteers out of the picture and start doing productive change elements the world over.

One step at a time.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Instead of an opinion it would be more interesting to hear what exactly is wrong with the global temperature record and let the scientific community scrutinize it.

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mikko
Reply to
Mikko OH2HVJ

That's above John Larkin's pay grade.

He reads denialist propaganda, take it seriously, and regurgitates it here. This automatically requires him to ignore what the scientific community has to say, but he doesn't seem to have any way of accessing that even if he wanted to.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

Nowadays there are lots of weather stations available online. It's interesting to find a map of stations somewhere and compare the temps to the local, official station, which is often located at an airport.

Here's one example.

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The official temp is measured at the airport, by a station out in the open at the end of a runway. It is usually the hottest or coldest of all the regional measurements.

Try it youself, for other places. Big cities are especially interesting.

You can also research the history of moving the official weather station of a region. San Francisco's has been moved about 8 times, usually into more highrise-intense downtown directions.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

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Reply to
jlarkin

Interesting, yes, but NOT productive. To survey climate, one needs to collect from a network of nodes, and relate those nodes to the whole-earth map. All nodes are 'official', that word only means that they report to some office or other (and that's the 'collection' requirement).

Irrelevant. It may just be a station with large fluctuations, it doesn't follow that averages are atypical. The more protected areas (under shade trees?) are forbidden because air mass near the ground doesn't show the lowest-mile-of-atmosphere temperature as usefully as a region that has updrafts/downdrafts and mixing.

Uninteresting, you mean. 'big cities' are just little dots on a world map. The weather survey function does NOT give any priority to their local weather monitors, because they aren't causing the weather, nor central to its evolution.

Again, that misconception; there may be an airport that you regard as 'official', but Seattle has four or five of those, there is NO single point which is 'the official weather station'. I can get reports from airports, a neighbor three doors south, or a local elementary school. Can't you?

Why would the locations be of interest, as long as you don't get the coordinates (and elevation) confused? The goal is to map on a scale suitable for capturing weather features.

Reply to
whit3rd

I think your best option is to always believe everything that you're told by experts.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

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jlarkin

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