The news is saying it's a "huge" missile and making comparisons to the Titan II, but that rocket plume looks really orange for a hypergolic-fueled missile, don't you think?
Hypothesis: it doesn't have anywhere near the payload capability that its external size would indicate. They built an Atlas/Titan I kerosene-burner and stuck it in a Titan II dress
PS: sorry if there are any formatting issues with text, using a mobile newsreader, doesn't look right to me either
'What's his face' is looking for a war so he can distract people from his behaviour and inherent stupidity...and his opponent is just as ridiculous.
We are living in a bad sit-com folks.
John
You do understand the warhead yield in equivalent tons TNT is not the actual weight of the warhead in tons?
bitrex wrote on 11/30/2017 8:54 AM:
I don't know why people think NK can't build a missile. It's not rocket science! Oh, wait, it is... but that's not so tough these days.
Our best bet is China. If we end up in any sort of war with NK China will be greatly impacted, so they will do what is needed to prevent it. I'm pretty sure even NK isn't foolish enough to think they don't need the support of at least one superpower.
-- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
l
It's not about North Korea, it's about the megalomaniac running the show, a nd that is why all traditional reasoning about a country acting its best in terest is null and void. Kim Jung-Un will be content to retreat to the safe ty of China and remotely order a strike against the U.S., most likely the e xtreme high population density centers in California. For places like Los A ngeles, they only need to come close in accuracy to annihilate millions. It 's going to take something like that happening before the mASSES here get a clue of the unbelievable incompetence of their misleadership. But as bad a s that will be, it will pale in comparison to the coming apocalypse due to global warming, something else their misleadership didn't do enough about.
Even bitrex can't be that stupid. Surely.
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I made a few feeble attempts to get some real data about the Hwasong-15 mis sile.
What makes you think it is a hypergolic fueled missile? The big deal with hypergolic fuels is that they can be throttled and restarted. But for a IC BM, there is no reason to throttle or restart. A solid fuel missile is han dy as they can be launched with no delay for fueling.
Dan
I see that unlike many Democrats you've successfully switched from Blame Bush to Blame Trump, despite the Kim dynasty existing long before either of them mattered.
Which, like Clean Fusion Power, seems to be always 30 years away.
Mark L. Fergerson
Does anybody else see the plume from vernier motors on the Hwasong-15? I'd swear that I do see several plumes, but maybe the news media got the pictures mixed up.
They are making a big deal about the -15 having gimballed main engines.
Jon
I of course don't know for sure either way. The reason I brought up hypergolics is because the Titan II used hydrazine mix/N2O4 in the first stage and that's the missile design it was being compared to in the media. AFAIK those fuels are also field-storable within the missile and non-cryogenic so you get some of the advantages wrt response time as solid fuels.
My understanding is also that while the hypergolic/N204 fuel combo has a lower Isp than kerosene/LOX it's also lighter, so assuming the Hwasong-15 _is_ fueled with the latter would it actually be able to throw a payload similar to the Titan IIs rated payload the range that is being claimed?
I tossed out speculation that knowing NK perhaps they built a rocket more like an Atlas or Titan I and then dressed it up to look like it had more throw weight than it actually does. The Atlas was an ICBM too but not an ICBM in the same class as the Titan II.
I don't know that much about aerospace engineering though so that was is a barely-educated guess intended to "foster discussion" ;-)
I didn't notice that, can you post a link?
I know that the two main engine bells look almost comically small for the size of the thing they're connected to. That's just a layman's impression though, maybe doesn't mean anything,
How did you come to that conclusion? He doesn't mention either Bush or Trump... ?
He also fails to understand that China won't give Kim a place to hide. They have no interest in a nuclear war involving anyone. The whole point of nuclear weapons is to never need to use them.
What??? Who said global warming is 30 years away? Some effects are seen today and many more effects will be seen over the next decades with the more serious effects taking 50 to 100 years. AGW is here now and will only get worse as we continue to do little about it.
Do you really believe that the CO2 content of the atmosphere can double or triple and have no impact on climate?
-- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
Nah, I think the North Koreans can build _some kind_ of liquid-fueled long range missile just fine. The question is did they actually build a missile with performance characteristics similar to a Titan II (as the media reported that it superficially resembled a Titan II?)
Or did they build something more resembling an Atlas or Titan I and make it look superficially big and scary? Both the Titan I and Titan II are ICBMs, but the Titan II is a different class of ICBM. A Titan I probably doesn't have the throw weight to actually throw a warhead 6000 nautical miles i.e. the entire CONUS.
No doubt they can build _something_, they clearly did the vid of the launch is online and I'm pretty sure nobody is taking outsourcing jobs for such projects for them (at least not directly.)
The question of engineering interest is _what_ exactly did they build. The Mig-25 was a very frightening prospect to Western defense analysts until they actually got their hands on one to examine.
True enough. The general problem, though, is that national entities that control all information come to believe their own propoganda. Khrushchev's memoirs are rather chilling, the internal rhetoric is JUST EXACTLY as silly as the public posturing.
Most of the former Soviet Union, and N. Korea, have to develop real politics from scratch, because their heritage is fantasy politics.
It bears saying that the USA is rapidly heading down the same path.
Yes, that is the important issue, whether they can strike Miami, FL. Who cares about Hawaii or California?
-- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
I'd like to know what the nasty orange fumes are too. My first thought was something Nitrated also.
Steve
Yes. Good point.
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