OT: Hacking a turntable (think: vinyl)

Hi,

I've been sorting out my old vinyl in preparation for transcribing it to digital media. LP's and 45's are easy to deal with. But, I have many 78's that I simply can't "play" (unless I find a PoS "record player" somewhere).

I was thinking of repurposing a Beogram 8000 to support the 78's -- either hacking the controller or "tricking" it (imposing a frequency multiplier in the feedback circuit to make it think it is running at a different speed).

Of course, I have no idea how the mechanism would behave at that speed. Nor the cartridge, tracking mechanism, etc.

Before *mangling* what is otherwise a decent turntable, I wondered if just *playing* the records at, e.g., 45 and post-processing the resulting audio *digitally* might give me "as good" results?

As above, there are similar issues with operating the mechanism at 45 while the medium was intended for 78. For example, the stylus/cartridge's low frequency response gets taxed more heavily.

I'm not keen on determining this empirically as I don't want to risk unnecessary wear on the media

*or* the stylus.

Suggestions?

Reply to
Don Y
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Not really suggestions, just musings.

Over 35 years ago I worked for the BBC radio as a studio maintenance technician. Great job - a 19 year old could destroy hundreds of pounds worth of gear trying to fix it without really knowing which was the sharp end.

Anyway. At that time, there was a whole department for transcribing 78 rpm (and many variations around that speed) disks onto tape. They used real big turntables with huge motors, and proper heavy tone arms with real steel needles. It was said that these fitted the grooves properly and provided the best reproduction at the cost of wearing out he disk more quickly. It was also said that the needles, being so large, would have no truck with mere dust particles.

It all seemed to work.

Cheers

--
Syd
Reply to
Syd Rumpo

The easiest is to get a belt drive turntable, its not hard to add tape to the motor spindle to get i doing 78 if it doesnt already support it. I wouldnt even contemplate messing with a dd tt.

If instead you record them at 45, you've got the complexities of both the riaa curve and the various curves 78s used to contend with, as well as the speed change. I dont se any reason to make life that hard.

Do use a 78 needle in your cart, use of an LP needle will get you far worse sound. Don't use a steel needle, it deforms greatly during just one play, and will mistrack something rotten by the end of the track

As far as all the minutiae you mention, 78s are crude beasts. Pretty much none of them go down anywhere near 20Hz. They were recorded mostly at 78, but some were 80rpm, and some were somewhere near 78 but not quite, due to the crude equipment used. As for how the tracking and mechanism behaves, look at old 78 recorders and players and you'll quickly realise its a total non-issue. If you set up a tt as badly as you can possibly manage, it might increase the distortion from 5% to

5.1.

And never clean a 78 with alcohol! It will dissolve.

ISTR audacity having a variety of the usual playback curves for 78s, there were a fair few of them.

NT

Reply to
NT

Google has its merits:

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Specs:

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Its a bit heavy though.

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Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
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Reply to
Nico Coesel

I thought needles of Burmese plywood were preferred.

For those too young to get the reference (are there any here?):

On the back of Peter Sellers L.P. "Songs For Swingin' Sellers", it says..

(1) " Only use needles of Burmese plywood (obtainable for a few measly coppers "pennies" at your local? stockist.

(2) Wind gramophone and stand in an empty zinc bath.

(3) Point the horn due south and tilt at an angle of 37 degrees Fahr.to the perpendicular

(4) Send Grandma out of the room !"

Reply to
Gib Bogle

Many earlier 78 records were not vinyl, they were shellac, deliberately loaded with an abrasive filler to make the needle conform to the groove shape in the first few revolutions. Best needles were fibre, often rose thorn ( yes, good old plant material ! ). You could hand-sharpen to approximately the correct shape, then the disc did the rest. Forget modern diamond styli - these are *far* too small ( the term 'microgroove' actually meant something then ) and will quickly ruin the record by riding in the bottom of the groove and slamming from side to side on the walls.

Have fun.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen           adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
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Reply to
Adrian Jansen

(sigh) This is disappointing! I'd reserved myself to the tedium of the actual "transcription" process (recording the audio, delimiting tracks, labeling them, etc.) thinking it would be a straight-forward, on-time deal that would enable me to shed some of this "baggage" before the next move. I.e., comparable to scanning the old 35mm slides, photos, tax returns, etc.

But, this doesn't seem like its going to be as cut and dry! Maybe I will see if I can locate a "service" locally and off-load this task to them...

Thanks!

Reply to
Don Y

Ask on rec.audio.pro.

-- Les Cargill

Reply to
Les Cargill

I doubt you are the only one with those records. I simply downloaded most of the music I have (had) on vinyl in mp3. Much easier.

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Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
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Reply to
Nico Coesel

Acoustic NAB Columbia LP AES Decca FFRR micro Decca FFRR 78 RIAA Columbia 78 Decca FFRR LP EMI 78 RCA Victor 1938 RCA Victor 1947

AFAIK, these filters *apply* the equalization curves.

Audacity also has standard RPM conversion: 33 1/3, 45, 78 both ways.

*Provided the OP can get a proper 78 stylus*, he could transcribe at 45RPM, then convert to 78. With a bit of massaging, he might get quite acceptable results.

I have several hundred pounds weight of vinyl, mostly classical, collected over the years, that I've been meaning to transcribe for years. I need a magnetic cartridge preamp. One day when I have time and inclination (AKA never), I shall build one.

--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
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Reply to
Fred Abse

ISTR that Shure made a combined large groove stylus with added weight, to fit their top-of-range magnetic cartridges (eg. V15).

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"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
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Reply to
Fred Abse

Same here. Also mostly classical. But I _do_ have a turntable... I just haven't gotten to the task ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

hopefully,your turntable isn't belt-drive; mine had the "rubber" belt rot away.(from lack of use) it got all gummy and broke apart.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
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Reply to
Jim Yanik

Yep, it's belt-drive :-( I'll get it down off the high closet shelf and see... but I don't remember "rubber", more like some strange fiber-feel to it. ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

I've tried that with much of my "more recent" (i.e., 30-40 year old) collection -- with some success though often with pretty questionable quality! How much *you* value a particular piece doesn't necessarily correlate to how much *I* value it! And, there is variation among quality of the actual source materials! (I can, for example, tell you how many times each of my copies of these "more recent" albums have been "under the stylus"!)

However, older titles tend to be a lot harder to locate. Or, to find the correct "version" (performer/release).

E.g., "Watusi Wedding", "Casey Jones", "Jailer Bring Me Water", etc. (you might find a hit for the title -- only to discover that it is a very different performance/performer than what you were looking for)

I have a friend who collects versions of "Ghost Riders in the Sky" (I *think* that is the title of the piece he's interested in). Last count, he had something like *200* of them!

(Sheesh! I can't even name 200 varieties of ICE CREAM that I like!!)

Reply to
Don Y

ere

d

why not use the preamp in a standard stereo amp, no work needed.

NT

Reply to
NT

That is true. Sometimes something is hard to find so you have to convert it yourself. But don't worry, even with today's music it is hard to find the version they play on the radio. One of the more recent songs by U2 called 'Magnificent' is available in about 10 original versions.

Fortunately there is benandjerrys.com :-)

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
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Reply to
Nico Coesel

Don't you mean benandjerrysfairies.com ?:-) ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

Well (prior to this post! :> ) I had thought it would "simply" be a matter of setting up a turntable, 24b sound card, cueing up an album, *waiting* for it to finish playing. Then, do a bit of post processing and labeling -- and on to the *next*!

(I.e., sort of like getting things onto *tape*)

I tend to enjoy live shows so I can easily have dozens of different "performances" of a particular title (by the same artist).

I make my own. :> Relatively easy (gelato is a bit more work) and you can make the flavors as *intense* as you want!

The downside is that the ice cream tends to be "colder" than store-bought. This limits how quickly you can

*swallow* it all without discomfort (took me several hours to finish the three pints I made last night! ;-)
Reply to
Don Y

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Ben & Jerry's is also anti-gun. I won't buy their products.

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Jim Yanik
jyanik
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Reply to
Jim Yanik

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