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Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 8:54:00 AM UTC+11, Steve Wilson wrote:
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e
rt  
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True, but it isn't happening at the moment. The oceans are warming up, but  
the amount of CO2 they can take up is also a function of the partial pressu
re in the atmosphere, which happens to be rising faster than the solubility
 of CO2 in sea-water is falling, so half the CO2 we inject into the atmosph
ere at the moment goes directly into the oceans.
  
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,  
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Clearly.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 2:16:46 AM UTC+11, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:
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enhouse  
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ation."
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 for a  
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rs

Which happens to have been b.s., motivated by his incapacity to get his mod
els to work. Much easier to accept that everybody else is cheating that it  
is to accept that you are incompetent.

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Another right-wing conspiracy theory. Science doesn't actually work like th
at, but James Arthur doesn't hang around with successful scientists (who wo
uld find him to be ill-informed and rather too confident of his own - bizar
re - point of view )so he's got no way of knowing.
  
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That was his self-serving theory. Trump thinks that he is a stable genius .
..
  
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Today's surface and ocean temperatures are weather, which can't be predicte
d more than ten days in advance.

If James Arthur had specified average temperatures, over areas  and time sp
ans big enough to let weather average out, it might just have been a reason
able request, were it not for the well-known (to anybody better informed th
an James Arthur) effects of ocean currents.

Most of us have heard of the El Nino/La Nina alternation.  

Since 1994, we've known about the  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_multidecadal_oscillation

These effects do alternate, but the oscillations aren't regular or all that
 predictable. We should know more when we get more data on deep ocean curre
nts, and some 3,800 Argo buoys are out there collecting it. The program onl
y started  in 2000, and it took until 2007 to get 3000 buoys deployed.

3,800 may sound like a lot of buoys, but there's a great deal of ocean volu
me to explore and document.

In other words James Arthur's proposed "test" is an illustration of his fat
uous ignorance, rather than any kind of modest proposal that could be acted
 on.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:33:41 PM UTC-4, Steve Wilson wrote:
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Sure, maybe.  I've not studied climate science.  I tend to believe  
most scientists*.  AGW is now political, at least in the US.  
Once things become political, people say all sorts of silly things.

George H.
*in their field/specialty... and even then every 'field' has some idiots.

Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On 29/03/18 02:50, George Herold wrote:
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That caveat is very important and all too often
forgotten or ignored.

The latter is particularly true when money, politics,
or inconvenience is involved.

But most people here realise that.

Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 6:09:36 AM UTC+11, George Herold wrote:
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That does point out that our current understanding of the way the earth fli
ps between glacial and interglacial periods suggests that we won't have ano
ther glacial period for about 50,000 years, by which time we will probably  
have worked out how to nudge the thermostat to prevent it.

The current nudge - pushing up atmospheric CO2 from 270 ppm to 407 ppm - is
 probably bigger than we actually want, right now, and it might be prudent  
to leave some fossil carbon in the ground against a time when we really nee
d to burn it.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world

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I certainly don't hope to convince you of anything. If I did post
links that you don't want to believe, you would accuse me of
cherry-picking.

We are now at about the peak of an interglacial. The normal state of
this planet is buried in kilometers of ice, and few critters alive.
The warm spikes don't last long.

I don't suppose you'd believe Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interglacial

It is interesting that the shape of the current interglacial is
different from the previous ones.



--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world

  

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If you have links, then post them. Show us your proof. You are not going to  
get us to believe anything by hiding your data.
  
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Ice ages are well documented. That has nothing to do with what will happen  
in the next 50 years. If temperatures continue to rise, we could reach a  
tipping point, where nothing can be done to prevent further increases. For  
example, huge amounts of CO2 in melting permafrost could be released. This  
would increase the rate of increase in temperature.

You have not told us what is wrong with Herold's link:

http://berkeleyearth.org/land-and-ocean-data/

Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 7:33:20 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
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. You  
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ready  
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r  
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Since you mostly post links to denialist web-sites, someone else has done t
he cherry-picking for you.
  
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We aren't. It peaked a couple of thousand years ago.

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ritters alive. The warm spikes don't last long.

This has been - sort of - true for the last 2.5 million years. There has be
en life on earth for the last 500 million years and periods in that time wi
th extensive ice sheets are rare. None of them have buried the entire plane
t under kilometre thick ice sheets. The Huronian period, when this did happ
en, is a lot earlier.

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Which previous ones? It isn't as warm as the previous one - the Eemian - no
r as spikey. It looks as if it was going to last as long as the one 400,000
 years ago, even before we started pumping CO2 into the atmosphere.

The Wikipedia "Interglacial" page isn't the last, or the only, word on the  
subject.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:39:44 AM UTC+11, Steve Wilson wrote:
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Ill-informed too. The Little Ice Age was a regional effect around the North
 Atlantic, driven by ocean currents moving around. It may have coincided wi
th a Maunder Minimum in sun-spot numbers, but that doesn't make solar irrad
iance the driving force - it doesn't vary much with sun-spot number at the  
best of times.

https://tamino.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/sunspots-and-solar-output/

https://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm

Changes in solar irradiance seems to be worth about 0.1 Kelvin variation in
 global temperature which makes it more of a contributor to the noise on th
e signal than any kind of driver.

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It will be some denialist web-site or other - he doesn't get his misinformn
ation on the subject anywhere else.

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 You  
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eady  
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People as gullible as John Larkin are easy to convince, and ones as vain as
 John Larkin aren't willing to admit that they have been gulled.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 2:25:07 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
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If we see another ice age coming (which we should be able to do)
 then I assume we'll ask everyone to burn more oil and coal*.

Say, is there anything that would let you trust the data?

George H.  
*It's not at all clear if coal causes more heat retention or cooling
from the crud/ particulate matter blocking the sunlight.      
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Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 12:03:10 -0700 (PDT), George Herold

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Unadjusted long-term temperature measurements at unchanged rural sites
with unchanged instruments.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 2:26:15 PM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
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<snip>

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In other words nothing that exists.

If John Larkin had paid attention to his science classes he would know enough to trust temperature data from isotope ratios (deuterium to hydrogen, and O18 to O16) in ice core data, which goes back 800,000 years

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-are-past-temperatures/

but sadly, he doesn't know enough to follow the logic, and is too vain to admit that he can't.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote:
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That article is dumbed down to the point of being useless.

Jeroen Belleman

Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 6:16:00 PM UTC+11, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
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http://www.pnas.org/content/97/4/1331

might be more your speed.

One of it's references is  

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R20%000037967

which takes you back to  

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/97JC01283

which goes to  

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/97JC01283

which is a 17-page .pdf. Enjoy.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
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ah, a slow-Man article.... How quaint..

Jamie


Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 3:53:42 AM UTC+10, M Philbrook wrote:
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Jeroen has rather higher standards than Jamie, who won't have read the Scientific American article, which was popular science, and therefore designed to be comprehensible to people without physics training.

I did find Jeroen a couple of higher level articles, and he has yet to complain about them.

Jamie is much too dumb to work out what was actually going on.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 11:26:15 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
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Excellent!  I'm firing up my time machine, be back soon. :^)  

George H.  
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Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 07:17:12 -0700 (PDT), George Herold

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You may not be able to find such records.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
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plenty of ice cores, tree rings, and sediment records


--  
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software  

Re: OT: Greenland is literally cracking apart and flooding the world
On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 8:31:15 PM UTC+11, Jasen Betts wrote:
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Anthony Watts only cares about Stevenson boxes, so that's all that John Larkin knows about.

--  
Bill Sloman. Sydney

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