OT: F**k Apple

Den torsdag den 18. februar 2016 kl. 23.02.44 UTC+1 skrev Jim Thompson:

Apple doesn't want to help break the security of their phones

what makes you think there aren't already lots of hackers trying to break the security of iphones?

if it is possible to do and they make the tool available to the FBI, everyone will now it is possible and that iphones are no longer trustworthy

if you knew the FBI had a tool that could easily open your phone, would you trust that hackers doesn't have the same tool?

I doubt it, people are constantly trying to hack iphones, and proudly make it public when they succeed, anyway.

a phone that is safe from hackers whether they are from the FBI or not is much better PR

-Lasse

Yes, i can do it for 1M, paid in advance. It will be expensive, but not im possible. The data are stored in flash. Samsung or other made the flash, n ot apple. With enough hardware probe, the flash can be copied, saved and r estored. I am surprise that the NSA can't do it, or they are just too lazy to do it.

NSA is not the FBI's lap dog. There are bigger issues at stake. NSA will not divulge their capabilities and compromise information sources.

t impossible. The data are stored in flash. Samsung or other made the flas h, not apple. With enough hardware probe, the flash can be copied, saved a nd restored. I am surprise that the NSA can't do it, or they are just too lazy to do it.

But it's a simple matter for the court to ask NSA to do it. I believe they can do it. Doing so does not really divulge their capabilities, just thei r deep pocket.

That's the propoganda claim, at least. What the FBI is actually asking for, is a general unlock/decrypt scheme for hundreds of millions of iPhone and iPad devices.

Unneeded; already been done, There's siphon-your-bank-account schemes that have garnered $50M paydays, from breaking bank security and encryption. Breaking into ApplePay would come with a comparable monetary reward.

Again, unnecessary. After it was known that uranium was fissile, others recreated the solution rather quickly. Learn these lessons well, history DOES repeat!

Err... did you hear what happened to Cisco international sales after it became known that some of their routers were subverted? Apple would beef up the security pronto, they aren't idiots!

And that's the real point: the questionable value of reviewing old phone info from deceased loonies who seem to have acted alone, against the real (to Apple, at least) security concerns of existing and prospective customers. Apple should be made to pay income tax, but they shouldtn't have to ruin their products at the behest of peepers.

Be careful what you wish for.

If they do it, every other country's government will demand a copy of the unlocker, as a condition of selling or (more obviously) manufacturing phones in that country. Do you really want that?

The most obvious failure here is that (it seems like) apple even gave themselves the technical possibility of complying with such an order.

Jim, We disagree here. I don't own an iphone, but I care about privacy. I'd rather have X "terrorist" caused deaths per year than give that up. (We can argue about X,

George H.

Apple already provided the information to the FBI. The rest is just PR puff so their fanbois don't get upset.

Possibly.

Cheers

OK. I'll direct them to upstate NY >:-} ...Jim Thompson

You can hope. Unfortunately I fear we're going to take a hit "rivaling" that event in France. ...Jim Thompson

??? If the NSA does something it clearly shows they have that ability. Good luck getting the NSA to do something they don't want to do by a common court ordering it. Won't happen.

Jim, you're old enough to remember one of Comey's predecessors, a fellow by the name of J. Edgar Hoover. I'm not arguing one way or another with your pro-FBI position in this case, both because I didn't experience the Hoover years in person and because these political topics always seem to lead to self-embarrassment for everyone involved. But still, I'd be curious to hea r if your position would be any different if the Hoover administration and all of its abuses were still fresh in everyone's memory.

My concern is that our own government is capable of doing far more harm tha n a few terrorists who get lucky once in a while and then slink back into t he slime they crawled out of for decades at a time. I've seen you express a lot of conservative-leaning opinions along the same lines, so I wonder if there's a contradiction at work here. Given their history, do you believe that the Feds -- under Obama, no less -- are trustworthy enough to deserve a monopoly on unbreakable encryption?

-- john, KE5FX

It's my understanding that Apple *can* break the iPhone but refuses to because it would mean that they're willing to break anyone's. From what has been said, the break involves pushing an "update" that removes the security but that Apple has to do it. I understand why they're doing it but we'll see how pissed they want to make a FISA judge.

But the data will still be encrypted.

snip

iPad and iPhone, IIRC have a 4 digit passcode to get into the phone.

Unless the owner added additional password protection to his or her email client, it would seem they only need to try up to 10,000 codes to get in.

but the software makes you wait between wrong passcodes and optionally wipes the device after 10

-Lasse

Yes believe it or not they thought of that. 10 fails and it erases itself!

AIUI the FBI want Apple to give them a (signed) firmware update that removes this feature, allowing the FBI to do what you suggest.

I can see that they might have a point about maintaining a secure platform. But since it is an iPhone 5c they could swap the firmware without the passcode. And the FBI request to do it to this specific phone only and on Apples terms seems reasonable to me. A technical blog has a nice article about the evolution of iPhone security. 5c was the last model that could be compromised in this way all the later models have a secure enclave vault that is independent of the main CPU.

TBH If I was in Apples shoes I might comply with the infinite number of guesses but leave the delays in so that the FBI are compelled to employ an intern to enter passcodes by hand once every hour for a year or more.

It might come as a big surprise to you but Apple stuff is rather well engineered and you can't easily execute data, corrupt the OS or swap firmware on whim like you can with unstable Mickeysoft products.

The reason the FBI have to ask for help is that to put new firmware on an iPhone and have it accepted the image must be digitally signed with Apples cryptographic signature which the FBI doesn't have.

The main effect of publicising this debacle is that every smart master criminal, drug dealer and terrorist will go out and buy an iPhone 5s or

People have been trying to hack Apple stuff since the Mac first came out. It can be done sometimes, but this embedded iOS code with digital signatures required even to get it to run is very resistant to attack. You have underestimated the true cost to hack it by orders of magnitude.

It may not even be possible without inside help from Apple.

Not going to happen (at least not due to a technical attack on code). If anything changes their mind it will be the backlash of public opinion. There has been speculation on UK legal groups what this would be in a US society that is paranoid and armed to the teeth.

I honestly think that Apple have called it wrong on this one. The terrorists phone should be hacked just in case it provides some clues and it can be done in such a way that only older models are affected.

Therefore the potential benefits outweigh the risks in this instance.

Interesting secondary point is that if they do get in the way to read the encrypted data on the phone is to upload it onto the Cloud where it is encrypted with Apples private key. Another reason to hate the Cloud.

The side effect of all this publicity is that the cat is out of the bag and anyone paranoid about their digital security will now upgrade.

The FBI will not be so lucky next time this problem arises.

The proposed hack will only work for iPhone 5c or earlier. see

Snag is that the firmware would have to be digitally signed by Apple.

I think Apple have misjudged it on this one, but US public opinion is rather more twisted and paranoid about privacy than in the UK. We are fairly pragmatic about privacy after decades of IRA terrorism. Over here it is assumed that law enforcement would have a quiet word with GCHQ to see if they had the means to access the data and there would be no publicity about it or any mention of the evidence obtained.