OT: Eco-Warrior Gets Pwned by Veteran News Presenter!

God save us from young people such as this self-entitled, pompous, holier- than-thou specimen. He wants - inter alia - a complete ban on meat consumption within 6 years - enforced Veganism by decree!

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Cursitor Doom
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No problem: I've tried some of these. Tastes like meat. Cooks very much like meat. Available at some local markets. Costs about twice as much.

More fake meat:

There probably won't be a ban on meat, but there might be a tax to make the fake meats more competative.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

... and doesn't provide the nourishment of meat.

A real problem for first world vegans is getting any B12. Yes, you can quite reasonably get it from supplements, but that's "not natural". And "being natural" seems to be a big thing with vegans.

I say "first world", because the third world vegans probably get sufficient B12 from eating shit. Bacteria in us make B12 in the lower intestine, but due to a grossly incompetent designer, we can only absorb B12 in the upper intestine,

Vegans also have problems with calcium (unless they eat supplements). Usually they witter on about "oh there's calcium in broccoli", but they are incapable of calculating how much broccoli they would need to eat to get the RDA. (And they're incapable of eating that much either!).

Reply to
Tom Gardner

There's Calcium in that there tofu. Nothing wrong with geophagia.

Cheers

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Clive
Reply to
Clive Arthur

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You and that idiot interviewer say that, but I don't see a bit of it. And t his phony claim about having a choice insofar as what food they can eat is a total lie. You'll eat what big ag tells you to eat , or you can go starve . How dumb are you? You'll soon find out when the products you're used beco me unavailable or exorbitantly priced, very soon.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

Shop at a farmers market. Raise your own chickens. Go fishing.

How lazy are you?

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John Larkin   Highland Technology, Inc   trk 

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Reply to
John Larkin

False, except when added as a supplement.

According to the USDA nutrient database, basic tofu has ~50mg/100g. Hence to get the RDA of 800mg, you would need to eat 1.6kg of tofu. Good luck with that in the long term!

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There are many types of tofu with 150-300mg/100g, but the footnote says "Manufacturers use either magnesium chloride (nigari), calcium sulfate, or both in varying quantities to precipitate the protein. Calcium and magnesium contents will vary accordingly."

Now that is a reasonable way to get Ca, but it requires, ahem, "industrial chemical" supplements - as I noted.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Over here...

Farmers markets are expensive, too expensive for many.

There isn't enough land to grow all the food we eat, as the rabid Brexiteers seem incapable of understanding.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

What a silly argument, have you not heard of supplements? Anyone can cover the basics, those are cheap as can be.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

They are, and despite looking good the produce was of lousy quality when I went. But yes it's more variety.

I might keep chickens for eggs but on almost all properties here it's not permitted.

Fishing hasn't a hope of being economically viable even for a minimum wager.

Well I'm not rabid and don't have any problem with importing food. What you state is actually a fallacy but it's moot as the idea that we grow everything we eat here is not really worth pursuing.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

I couldn't get the above URL to display. Blank screen on two different machines.

My Costco multivitamin pills contain 50mcg (micrograms) of B12. Skimming a few online articles show the B12 RDA at 2.4mcg. The recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for adults is 2.4 micrograms (mcg) a day.

800mg (milligrams) per day is far to much.

Incidentally, I also have a bottle of B12 NatureMade timed release B12 at 1000mcg per pill, which the label shows a daily dose is 16,667% of the RDA. If a little is good for you, a massive overdose must be better.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Apparently you can store a lot of it

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"The total amount of vitamin B12 stored in the body is between two and five milligrams in adults. Approximately 50% is stored in the liver."

"The liver can store three to five years worth of vitamin B12 under normal conditions and functioning."

Overdose doesn't seem to be a problem. Getting it in a form that you can absorb can be a problem for some people.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

Strange. It worked for me in three different browsers.

Try

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or, better, search for USDA nutrient database and then lookup "Tofu, salted and fermented (fuyu)"

Just so; we agree.

As I wrote, but Clive Arthur snipped...

A real problem for first world vegans is getting any B12. Yes, you can quite reasonably get it from supplements, but that's "not natural". And "being natural" seems to be a big thing with vegans.

That's the RDA for *calcium*, not B12. Calcium is also a problem for those that don't eat dairy and drink soft water.

If someone is suffering pernicious anaemia (the precursor to irreversible nerve/brain damage caused by B12 deficiency), then such massive amounts of B12 are indeed prescribed and sometimes injected. So 1mg isn't unreasonable, in /those/ conditions.

Pernicious anaemia can be staved off by high folate intakes, but that doesn't stop the irreversible CNS. Vegans have a high folate intake, so they miss the "warning signs" of (reversible) pernicious anaemia, and move straight to irreversible brain damage.

The other relevant fact about B12 is that a "fully loaded" liver can contain more than a /decade/ supply of B12. Hence any statements such as "I went vegan 5 years ago and haven't suffered any problems" should be taken with a pinch of salt (or preferably B12).

Reply to
Tom Gardner

I've also seen 10 years; there is apparently either a lot of variability or everybody naturally consumes some B12 from various sources, or some people need less.

B12 is only made by bacteria. Our only natural sources are meat/fish/dairy and shit.

I sometimes wonder if various animals are copraphagous for that reason, but I've no idea whether there is any validity to the concept.

Just so. There's something called "intrinsic factor" involved in absorption, but it doesn't seem to be too well understood.

Problems are particularly apparent in women over 50.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

RDA is not a description of a level above which lies overdose. It is merely one view on what constitutes adequate for most people. Only at the bottom end of the supplement market do tabs include 100% RDA of many things.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

They are mostly cheap here in California. If you get out of a big city and go a bit inland, into the central valley, produce is absurdly cheap at roadside stands. The stuff is fresh out of the fields and superb. Of course stuff costs more in a big city.

If BG leaves the european union, do you think the EU will blockade by air and sea and starve the brits to death?

You could always smuggle food in from Canada by submarine.

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John Larkin   Highland Technology, Inc   trk 

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John Larkin

John Larkin wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Or drop it in from space, man! Wow!

You guys are a real piece of work.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

OK; terminology difference.

No, but there must, by law, be checking of goods that cross the boundary. The question is how significant those checks will be. The French and Dutch think they will be *very* significant.

The prominent brexiteers have, belatedly, stated that they didn't realise how much food came across the channel (Dunning-Kruger syndrome with a vengence).

The UK government's plans include: - sending extra police to N Ireland and Kent (why?) - deploying 3500 troops (to do just what?) - preventing kids from going to/from school in Kent - turning a major motorway and an airfield into a car park for 10k(!) lorries (plan was tested with 89(!) lorries, snort) - flying in scarce medicines - there's vague ideas about short-lived radioisotopes for cancer diagnosis and treatment (we will leave Euratom, which legally makes us similar to N Korea!) - no concept of the water short-life purification chemicals (ozone?) that are produced in Europe FFI, search for "operation yellowhammer" and "operation brock", and weep for us.

Oh yes, the government gave a contract (now cancelled) to a company, Seaborne Freight, for extra cross-channel ferry capacity. The company has *zero* ships, and zero experience of shipping and logistics. And the ports they planned to use are too small.

You couldn't make it up!

Reply to
Tom Gardner

If French and Dutch farmers want to abandon their own markets, lots of other people will feed the Brits. The US has embarassing crop surpluses. You can survive on California and Australian wine too.

There must be something unique about the climate of Europe that makes it possible to manufacture ozone. I think they have most of the world supply of oxygen.

Hysteria is ever popular. And amusing.

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John Larkin   Highland Technology, Inc   trk 

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Reply to
John Larkin

TBH I'm surprised and bemused abut the water purification. It is, apparently, the thing that convinced a prominent and vocal Brexiteer, Michael Gove, that a hard brexit would be intolerable. Gove is an especially slimy politician who will say whatever he thinks will be popular with his audience. Hence this unpopular statement can't be ignored.

None of the rest of the points are surprising, except to the ignorant politicians that live in the Westminster bubble rather than on planet earth.

The politicians have been in full Jean-Luc Picard mode, thinking that if they say "Make it so" then it will happen. They have been far too careful to avoid hysteria, and have believed their own propaganda rather than listening to people that do know what they are talking about.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

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