ot drilling glass

Hmm rain, does a small hole 1/16" (say) make it better? (Liquids is not something I know a lot about... besides liking the beer.) When does a hole go from being a ~2 dimensional thing, to 3-D (with a length)?

George H.

I replaced a bunch of them about ten years ago. Basically, you remove the window and take it to a glass shop. They have the tools needed to take the frames apart and make the replacement panes. It's not at all hard to do and not really that expensive (about $30 per window, IIRC).

You can buy double pane window glass and put it in your self. I have done that.

I have not tried drilling holes in the glass. But if I did I would drill t he inside panel one hole at the top and another at the bottom. And then s lowly run inert gas in at the bottom. Water vapor is not as dense as CO2 or Argon. So putting it the inert gas at the bottom and letting air and wa ter vapor out at the top should flush the air and water vapor out. And the n seal the holes with some silicone caulk. People use silicone to glue fis h tanks together , so should work to seal the holes.

Even if there are leaks in the original seals , it would not be a big deal to pull the silicone out of the holes , flush , and reseal every six or twe lve months.

Dan

Right, that makes sense. As long as it's a removable window. My bathroom window has had a hard life, and it might be better to replace the whole thing. (or drill some holes?? JL is doing the exp. I'm waiting at least a year for results.)

George H.

e that.

the inside panel one hole at the top and another at the bottom. And then slowly run inert gas in at the bottom. Water vapor is not as dense as CO

2 or Argon. So putting it the inert gas at the bottom and letting air and water vapor out at the top should flush the air and water vapor out. And t hen seal the holes with some silicone caulk. People use silicone to glue f ish tanks together , so should work to seal the holes. Dan, have I told you my fish tank, silicone sealant story? (This was GE clear food grade silicon, which was recommended.) ~40 gal. tank, 1/4" thickness, 3' maximum dimension, (No top brace!!) I started filling it in the basement... and kinda forgot it (which is typical of me) I went down and it was ~90% full, at the top the glass was bulging out (in my memory, which could be faulty) several inches on each side.. say 2" over 3'. I didn't stop to measure, but grabbed a bucket and bailed. The silicone held. (I added a top brace.) George H.

l to pull the silicone out of the holes , flush , and reseal every six or t welve months.

...or crack the glass.

Sounds like a ton of work. The nearest glass shop might be in Reno.

Drilling is easy. I'll have a pro replace the windows if/when necessary.

There are old houses with single-pane windows over a hundred years old. These modern 2-pane things fail quickly.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Excuse me, but I would call that a big deal.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Some of the ones here, I drilled two and three years ago. The condensation went away in a few days. Seem fine winter and summer. Well, one tiny spider got inside one, from the outside.

Seems to me like a vented 2-pane window is less prone to condensation than a single-pane. Less heat conduction to drive condensation.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

That is my theory too.

We don't have a/c either, which may simplify the situation.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Engineers hate doing things over, eh?

John

Hence a suggestion to plug the hole, or perhaps use a filter to keep dust and critters out.

Condensation will ruin the R value of the window, so drilling a vent hole can't hurt for improving efficiency! Unless the glass breaks.

John

al t Dan

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. _I just see unplugging the hol es and flushing out the water vapor and resealing as a lot less effort than drilling the holes. My opinion is probably shaped by my having a bunch of gas cylinders and regulators on hand.

Dan

Not a lot of work at all. Most panes just lift out, some have screws. Others are more "permanent" and are a problem but that's life.

It also doesn't work. You've just ruined the insulation properties of the window and it will cloud up again as soon as the temperature/humidity changes. As others have pointed out, any internal film may deteriorate, as well.

Utter nonsense. If they were installed by a hack, perhaps. Properly installed they'll last as long as I need them to.

If the moisture got in there because of a failed seal, you've just added to the "failure". Under the right (wrong) conditions, it *will* fog again.

I agree, however if one is looking for a temporary (perhaps a couple of years?) solution then this may get one by.

Certainly a double glazed window with moisture trapped inside will have a terrible R number!

John

There is a failure of logic here somewhere. Windows from factory are filled with dry air or a heavy gas like Argon. The seal is nearly 100%. No condensation is observed. A small leak develops and at some point, condensation is observed. A slightly larger leak is installed and the condensation goes away, permanently? I find it hard to believe that condensation can't happen still. It's not like the very slow leak would concentrate the water vapor inside the panes. It simply acts as a low pass filter giving a DC value of the signal with the AC component largely removed. The hole in the glass changes the time constant allowing the water vapor to leave, but only very slowly. When temperature changes more rapidly condensation will continue to form.

There was enough heat conduction to condense inside the window before the hole was drilled. Drilling the hole will only impact the RC time constant of the water vapor levels inside the window.

The heat conduction is not related to your issue. The inside of the outer pane will be colder than the inside of a single pane glass. So if there is water vapor inside the window it will condense.

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Rick C

Not sure what "terrible" is, but it will still be *much* better than single pane glass. There is still the largely immobile vapor barrier. Windows pretty well suck as thermal insulation anyway, no matter how good they are. Pay someone $500 to take thermal images of your house and you will see the lion's share of heat loss is through the windows. That's why I shudder at houses with walls of glass.

An uncle was in the heating and cooling business. He pointed out how impractical it was to pay lots of money for good insulation in walls and ceilings only to cut big holes in them to let the heat out!

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Rick C

I'd expect that to be much bigger issue for cooling than heating modern windows are less than 1W/m2K. even when it is really cold that doesn't add up to much compared to ~1kW per square meter sun mid day in the summer

-Lasse