OT: Climate Change Bullshit

In my village, after the referendum a Brexiteer family ran the Union Flag up their flagpole. For several /months/ they didn't realise it was upside down, which is a traditional distress signal. (I thought it was the neatest comment on Brexit that I had seen)

Such gross cluelessness is common amongst Brexiteers, e.g. - Dominic Raab (who negotiated the Brexit deal and promptly resigned in shame) belatedly discovered how much of our trade goes between Dover and Calais - David Davies, later the minister for Brexit, proudly proclaimed that he would be able to negotiate good trade deals with individual EU countries, not realising that would be illegal

Yes, but that doesn't stop free marketeers idolising "the wisdom of the markets" and similar nonsense.

And you think entrenched capitalism doesn't? Just look at the top management of, say, GM/Ford, or HP (after Bill and Dave died), etc. And don't forget what lead to the anti-trust laws.

Mensch ist mensch, the whole world over.

Agreed.

It's like evolution. It does a good job and creates brilliant stuff. That's a sort of wisdom.

But you can always find someone somewhere that you can mock.

Big old entrenched capitalist companies get left behind: Kodak, DEC, Xerox, GR. Because new ones do a better job.

Giant railroad and oil trusts were an improvement over no railroads and no oil.

Neither GM nor Ford nor HP nor IBM nor Microsoft nor Google nor Amazon nor Facebook started in a communist country. The new ones were usually started by college dropouts with no money. HP was started by college grads with no money.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

The key, is 'scales'; there's a plurality of indicators, and you can check each by the others with overlapping data. Eyes rolling doesn't mean you have an idea how to estimate accuracy, does it? Because, such an idea would be worth sharing.

Don't encode a real criticism in eye rolling. Just use words.

Please provide a bibliography of this 'evidence for climate change' that you speak of? I am not aware of this evidence.

Thank you

you speak of? I am not aware of this evidence.

Oh, start here: References Bednar?ek, N., G. A. Tarling, D. C. E. Bakker, S. Fielding, E. M. Jo

and E. J. Murphy, 2012: Extensive dissolution of live pteropods in the Sout hern Ocean. Nature Geoscience, 5, 881-885, doi:10.1038/ngeo1635. | Boden, T., G. Marland, and B. Andres, 2012: Global CO2 Emissions from Fos sil-Fuel Burning, Cement Manufacture, and Gas Flaring: 1751-2009. Carbon Di oxide Information Analysis Center, Oak Ridge National Laboratory.| Huber, M., and R. Knutti, 2012: Anthropogenic and natural warming inferre d from changes in Earth's energy balance. Nature Geoscience, 5, 31-36, doi:

10.1038/ngeo1327. Jones, G. S., P. A. Stott, and N. Christidis, 2013: Attribution of observ ed historical near surface temperature variations to anthropogenic and natu ral causes using CMIP5 simulations. Journal of Geophysical Research, 118, 4 001-4024, doi:10.1002/jgrd.50239. Kennedy, J. J., P. W. Thorne, T. C. Peterson, R. A. Reudy, P. A. Stott, D . E. Parker, S. A. Good, H. A. Titchner, and K. M. Willett, 2010: How do we know the world has warmed? [in ?State of the Climate in 2009? ?]. Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, 91, S26-27, doi:10.1 175/BAMS-91-7-StateoftheClimate. Kunkel, K. E., L. E. Stevens, S. E. Stevens, L. Sun, E. Janssen, D. Wuebb les, and J. G. Dobson, 2013: Regional Climate Trends and Scenarios for the U.S. National Climate Assessment: Part 9. Climate of the Contiguous United States. NOAA Technical Report NESDIS 142-9. 85 pp., National Oceanic and At mospheric Administration, National Environmental Satellite, Data, and Infor mation Service, Washington, D.C. Kunkel, K. E., X. - Z. Liang, J. Zhu, and Y. Lin, 2006: Can CGCMs simulat e the twentieth-century ?warming hole? in the central Unite d States? Journal of Climate, 19, 4137-4153, doi:10.1175/JCLI3848.1. Lenton, T. M., H. Held, E. Kriegler, J. W. Hall, W. Lucht, S. Rahmstorf, and H. Joachim Schellnhuber, 2008: Tipping elements in the Earth's climate system. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 105, 1786-1793, do i:10.1073/pnas.0705414105. Luers, A. L., M. D. Mastrandrea, K. Hayhoe, and P. C. Frumhoff, 2007: How to Avoid Dangerous Climate Change: A Target for U.S. Emissions Reductions. 34 pp., Union of Concerned Scientists, Cambridge, MA. Mann, M. E., Z. Zhang, M. K. Hughes, R. S. Bradley, S. K. Miller, S. Ruth erford, and F. Ni, 2008: Proxy-based reconstructions of hemispheric and glo bal surface temperature variations over the past two millennia. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 105, 13252-13257, doi:10.1073/pnas.08 05721105. Marshall, P., and H. Schuttenberg, 2006: A Reef Manager's Guide to Coral Bleaching. Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, IUCN Global Marine Pro gramme, and U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, 163 pp. Nordhaus, W., 2013: The Climate Casino: Risk, Uncertainty, and Economics for a Warming World. Yale University Press, 392 pp. NPS, 2012: What is Climate Change? U.S. Department of the Interior, Natio nal Park Service. NRC, 2010: Overview and Summary of America?s Energy Future: Techn ology and Transformation. National Research Council. The National Academies Press, 58 pp. NRC, 2011: America?s Climate Choices. National Research Council. The National Academies Press, 144 pp. NRC, 2011: Climate Stabilization Targets: Emissions, Concentrations, and Impacts over Decades to Millennia. National Research Council. The National Academies Press, 298 pp. Pacala, S., and R. Socolow, 2004: Stabilization wedges: Solving the clima te problem for the next 50 years with current technologies. Science, 305, 9 68-972, doi:10.1126/science.1100103. Pan, Z., R. W. Arritt, E. S. Takle, W. J. Gutowski, Jr., C. J. Anderson, and M. Segal, 2004: Altered hydrologic feedback in a warming climate introd uces a ?warming hole?. Geophysical Research Letters, 31, L1 7109, doi:10.1029/2004GL020528.

J. Murnane, C. Parmesan, D. Phillips, R. S. Pulwarty, and J. M. R. Stone, 2

008: Ch. 1: Why weather and climate extremes matter. Weather and Climate Ex tremes in a Changing Climate. Regions of Focus: North America, Hawaii, Cari bbean, and U.S. Pacific Islands. A Report by the U.S. Climate Change Scienc e Program and the Subcommittee on Global Change Research, T.R. Karl, G.A. M eehl, C.D. Miller, S.J. Hassol, A.M. Waple, and W.L. Murray, Eds., Departme nt of Commerce, NOAA?s National Climatic Data Center, 11-34. Portmann, R. W., S. Solomon, and G. C. Hegerl, 2009: Spatial and seasonal patterns in climate change, temperatures, and precipitation across the Uni ted States. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 106, 7324-7329 , doi:10.1073/pnas.0808533106. Puma, M. J., and B. I. Cook, 2010: Effects of irrigation on global climat e during the 20th century. Journal Of Geophysical Research, 115, D16120, do i:10.1029/2010JD014122. Robinson, W. A., R. Reudy, and J. E. Hansen, 2002: General circulation mo del simulations of recent cooling in the east-central United States. Journa l Of Geophysical Research, 107, ACL 4-1 - ACL 4-14, doi:10.1029/2001JD00157

1. UNEP/GRID-Arendal, 2012: Potential climate change impacts. GRID-Arendal a nd United Nations Environment Programme. Wouters, B., J. L. Bamber, M. R. van den Broeke, J. T. M. Lenaerts, and I . Sasgen, 2013: Limits in detecting acceleration of ice sheet mass loss due to climate variability. Nature Geoscience, 6, 613-616, doi:10.1038/ngeo187
2. |

Yes, its terrifying how bad the NYT is. isn't it?

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

Like evolution it also creates all sort of idiotic mistakes - like the peacocks tail. That isn't any kind of wisdom.

John Larkin seeing "wisdom" in evolution deserves quite a lot of mockery.

Unless the big old entrenched capitalist companies are so entrenched that they strangle the new companies at birth.

But taking the trusts apart into bits that did compete with one another produced further improvement, and that involved regulating the "free" market to prevent capitalists from maximising their returns at the expense of their customers.

The weren't any communist countries when IBM started. The companies that became IBM in 1924 got together as CTR in 1911, when Russia was still ruled buy the Romanovs.

College drop-outs with no money don't start companies - they can start businesses but turning a business into a company costs money.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Oh dear. Where diod that straw man come from. Those are not myths of the free market - those are myths of the Left.

The market isnt wise. of course. But it is leas easily corrupted.,

Like democracy the free merket is te worst possible mecahnism - except for all the rest.

Conervatoism means sticking with what works, wasrt and all, rather than tryiung to create the same failed idealised system again and again.

"if you transpose the same people into a different organisation, the people problems will disappear."

The absolute principle of Big State in one sentence!

Mensch ist mensch.

Whayt any engineer will tell you is that to get impperfect components to perform better they need to be part of a system of feedback. The 'moral' and legal checks and balances of society do this.

Unfortunateley they get in the way of Big State, so it has largely dimsantled them

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

It is not a question of them behaving differently so much as not letting their be=haviour dictate the the behaviour of the organisation.

A lesson the EU has utterly failed to learn.

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink... 
..I'd spend it on drink. 

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

Yes,. you are.

You are contradicting yourself.

Obviously changing the incentives chanmges the behaviour at least externally. People do what they must, but that doesnt change what they would like.

Ergo people will externally behave differently under different regimes. It doesnt change them internally though.

Exactly.

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink... 
..I'd spend it on drink. 

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

Yup. Look at the mess God made.

>

--
?Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,? 

  ? Ludwig von Mises

I have never heard thatpharse except from you.

No one idolises free markets. Any morte thanm they do angle grinders. A tool is a tool.

Idolatry is the mark of the Left.

Indeed. BUT those companies can and do fail.

Until te State intervemnes and decalres them all too big to fail....we shild jave let te banks crash and burn.

That is getting a bit boring. Yes. You know a very little German.

--
?Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,? 

  ? Ludwig von Mises

No they did not.

Engineers and craftsmen and scientists gave you those.

Then the little s**ts came along and saiud 'uou need us to run it all for you'

Yiou are erooneosuly equating technocrats with politcians and bureaucrats. NOTHING could be more mistaken.

Thos venal litytle s**ts atre parasites. M Personally, I don't care what their motives were; I love my house and

Then dont be misled that politicians had anything to do with supplying them

Even te Internet was only created becaiuse they were shit scared that a nuclear war would wipe out communications and so invented a bomb proff routing protocol.

We NEED an Enemey, to keep te s**ts scared and in line.

The real problem is that post Cold War, we haven't had one so they have become the Enemy themselves.

--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

Indeed. In the gruesomness of Marxiam, the only metric is material wealth. Marxism is all abouut who owns it and who ought to have it instead.

Yup.

And my resaosns were firstly, energy policy. Renewable energy costs a

We cannot as a nation unilaterally say 'we dont want it' - the EU prevents it. We cannot even say 'we want to build 30 subsidised nukes that will do more and cost less. The EU prevents it.

My second reason was immigration. Naturally anyone living in a third world shithole sees Britain as a cool place to wander into. And to turn into a third world shithole. I dont want to live in someone elses third world shithole.

My third reason was te Euroe and te EU economic policy. It was just plain unworkable, and te fgiurher away we are from it the better.

My fourth reaosn grew out of my first reason. There was no way to change EU policy by democratic means. No matter who I voted for we got EU renewable obligations.

If policy cannot be changed by the electorate then democracy is dead. The only chance was to vote leave. But we are now seeing that vote ignored as well, aren't we?

--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch". 

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

A statement of faith that I find it hard to agree with.

Of course none of te curremnt politicians are capable of managing the country let alone governing it, but then neither was te EU.

WE have to find politicians who CAN...

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in  
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in  
someone else's pocket.

In fact nothing worth a damn was ever started in a communist country.

--
"If you're not able to ask questions and deal with the answers without feeling  
that someone has called your intelligence or competence into question, don't  
ask questions on Usenet where the answers won't be carefully tailored to avoid 
tripping your hair-trigger insecurities."                  - D M Procida, UCSM

Putin looks like the best candidate at the moment. He is certainly doing a good job using a little money to pull the all the right strings.

Sovereignty only matters to half a dozen people - those that might become sovereign.

Now, what is it that really matters to you? You, or our children, will almost certainly find that you don't get it.

Wow, talk about a single-issue fanatic.

We cannot build nukes any more. Thatcher sold that capability.

Now we have to beg the French, Japanese, and others - and are failing to get them.

If you want a trade deal with India, the quid pro quo will be to remove visa restrictions.

Is that what you mean and want?

You have MEPs, just as you have MPs. If you think MEPs are insufficient, presumably you think MPs are insufficient, and would therefore like to live in a totalitarian state.

You do not live in a democracy, and never have.

There are no democracies, and haven't been in modern history.