The implication here, is that people voted leave to be better off financially. I didn't.
The EU Commission is a totalitarian nightmare. The people never signed up for a federal European government in the first place. The "Common Market" was disingenuously morphed into what was never agreed to by the people.
I voted to leave. No iffs or butts, or deals. To walk away. The UK to be a sovereign nation. Period.
-- Kevin Aylward
I like Sci-Fi, but that's all it is, fiction. Its a logical fallacy to assume that science is going to progress in "unimaginable" ways just because some dude at IBM once goes "there is world market for maybe 5 computers". The overwhelming majority of positive predictions for the future, also failed. There will be no Warp Drives.
There is very good reason to believe that science has, essentially, maxed out in many areas. Physics has very real limits, unfortunately, many Physicists get funded by saying their isn't.
-- Kevin Aylward
And the EU is effectively a one-party state.
-- Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it, and Hell where they already have it. Ronald Reagan
Whenever I see data saying that temperature of the world plotted with 0.1 deg resolution/accuracy scales, my eyes roll. More so when such scales go back to the 1800s, and way, way more so when back 1000s of years.
To get accuracy "for the whole world", one needs a LOT of sensors, like millions.... err.. all over the world, all over past time. Having 10 in the Sahara or 12 in the Arctic, just don't cut it. Temperatures are not random space wise so averaging simply don't work. Just getting my bath water measured to a degree is problematic...
Kevin Aylward
Not relevant to the points under discussion.
Oh, the EU has problems, but we will have worse problems outside the EU. Being in the EU would be the lesser of two evils.
Start with us being an easy target for those that know the inept politicians will be desperate to do any trade deal.
The US will want us to have NHS funds diverted into foreign corporation's coffers, and to "relax" our food standards.
India will be happy to do a deal, provided we get rid of entry visas for their citizens. "Control of our borders"? I think not!
Australia will do a trade deal with the more economically important EU before the UK.
China hasn't forgotten how we gained control of Hong Kong.
The US will walk away from NATO, leaving us with what?
The UK, as 3% of GDP, will be regarded as the 3% of customers that are so awkward that every business ought to get rid of them.
If we don't pay up on our future obligations to the EU, then moneylenders will presume that we will renege on future obligations to them - and charge us penal interest rates as the current national debts are rolled over.
Sovereignty only matters to half a dozen people - those that might become sovereign.
Now, what is it that really matters to you? You, or our children, will almost certainly find that you don't get it.
Well quite.
I seem to recall in one of the early chaos books, it was said that if you instrumented the planet with sensors on a 12 inch grid, all over the whole surface, and upwards to the edge of space also on a 12 inch grid, and if you could obtain pressure, humidity, wind velocity, from all of these sensors and process the data, your weather forecast would
*still* only be good out to about a month away from now.-- "Please stop telling us what you feel. Please stop telling us what your intuition is. Your intuitive feelings are of no interest whatsoever, and nor are mine. I don't give a bugger what you feel, or what I feel. I want to know what the evidence shows." -- Richard Dawkins
Its vague because its climate "science". All of it is vague including the data.
And that's why he resides, like the other dipshits, in my KF.
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Same here, Kev. Never expected there to be anything but aggro during the whole process, but the prize of flying free with no deal to tie us to a dying Europe is well worth all the bluff and bluster. Anyone who expected them to make it easy for us was living in la-la land!
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Evidence is lacking. The 'police one another' also happens inside monolithic-looking single parties (China has recently done some internal corruption-bashing, and Japan famously did a conversion from one-party to multiples some decades ago).
A one-party system routinely disregards the needs of other classes than the rulers, is the real problem. China could have been a tech leader instead of a follower, but knowledge got sequestered by the powerful civil service... who weren't getting paid to produce consumer goods. It took archive-searching by Joseph Needham before the rest of the world found out how much innovation China actually had (but didn't develop).
The blast furnace was known in China a few hundred years B.C., for instance.
Two-party states seem work out much the same as one party states. Both parties are corrupt, and have too much to lose to go after the corruption in the other party.
This is where proportional representation and multi-party democracy works better - there's always some small party that isn't corrupt (because it doesn't have enough power to make it worth bribing) which can denounce what's going on in the bigger parties.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Two-party states seem work out much the same as one party states. Both parties are corrupt, and have too much to lose to go after the corruption in the other party.
This is where proportional representation and multi-party democracy works better - there's always some small party that isn't corrupt (because it doesn't have enough power to make it worth bribing) which can denounce what's going on in the bigger parties.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
rote:
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democracies.
John Larkin has yet to learn that communism and socialism are different pol itical philosophies - socialism is democratic, for a start - and that socia ism works rather better than capitalism.
Obviously true, and one of the better publicised reasons that prompted the international socialists to chuck out Karl Marx and the proto-communists ba ck in 1871.
"?If you took the most ardent revolutionary, vested him in absolute power, within a year he would be worse than the Tsar himself.?
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Actually, it wasn't the self-serving psychopathic little s**ts who did any of that. They just moved in to exploit other people's innovations to the hilt.
The US life expectancy figure have just gone backward this year as well. Other countries are doing better. Psychopathic exploitation doesn't seem to deliver the best possible outcomes.
Probably not a rational response.
And they'd all be a bit better under a less psychopathic government.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Right-winger do like to claim this. It's a trifle unrealisitc.
The Common Market was always seen - from the outset - as a route to a European political federation. It was never explictly put to the people - joining the EU was done by governments, not by popular votes.
Kevin hasn't noticed that his United Kingdom is a federation of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. England voted to leave the EU - the others didn't.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Perhaps. But reading classic sci-fi is a great way of observing that people who claim to be predicting the future did miss the areas where progress was clearly going on and how that progress was actually going to change the way we live.
Science covers a lot of stuff that journalist only notice after venture capitalists have started making money of them.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Actually, you don't a lot of sensors. Isotope ratio's from Greenland and Antarctic ice cores tell you what the global temperature was when that ice first condensed out of water vapour.
There are more technical publications on the subject, but you probably need to start on stuff aimed at the less sophisticated reader before you work up to the level you will eventually master in order to stop looking unsophisticated.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
The half-life of methane in the atmosphere is well defined for any given atmosphere, but adding more methane changes the atmosphere and the half-life of the methane in that atmosphere. Nothing vague about that.
Climate science has access to a flood of very specific data about a very complicated system. It gets very specific about what happens if we keep on pushing up the CO2 level - it gets warmer.
Because the system is complicated there are limits on the precision with which we can predict the exact warming, but the precision is entirely adequate to tell us that we don't want to go much further.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Actually, Cursitor Doom kill-files people who disagree with him. Since he i s a gullible and ill-informed half-wit, he selectively kill-files people wh o know what they are talking about. If he hasn't kill-filed you, you are mu ch too tolerant of fatuous nonsense.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
The idea that Europe is dying and that the UK would thrive when cut off from its major market is the kind of lunacy that we have come expect Cursitor Doom to endorse.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
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