OT: Civil War Monuments

I recall the original issues with monuments honoring Civil War era leaders had to do with the clear statement made by the ones at issue. One in Louisiana had a plaque honoring a white supremacy group and commemorating their uprising. Clearly this sort of monument has no place in a country still fighting the battles of civil rights.

But does that mean we have to denounce all of the heros of the losing side? I've read local news where the issues are being debated even at a local level regarding streets named after Confederate leaders.

The terms of surrender were written in recognition of the honor shown by the Confederate leaders. Why can't we continue to show them honor today? Why do we need to hide all our monuments to those who led the people they represented just because they had ideas whose time had ended?

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Rick C
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rickman
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rickman wrote on 8/13/2017 11:53 PM:

I don't want anyone to think I am of one mind on this topic. I do also have some feeling for what it means to see monuments honoring those who led the rebellion in support of slavery and suppression of an entire race.

I've spent time in Richmond and found Monument Ave to be both beautiful and historic. But I suppose I get that, aside from one monument to Arthur Ashe, it is about remembering the Richmond that existed before the Civil war, a Richmond that some use to rally around and justify their white supremacist ideas. It seems that by these people aligning themselves with these symbols of the past we are allowing them to define the nature of our past. Maybe I'm not a big proponent of change, but I'd hate to let white supremacists define how I regard the monuments to people of an important era in our country's history.

I see that, as I write this, there are protests along Monument Ave after a candlelight vigil for Heather Heyer, the victim of the Charlottesville killing.

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

rickman wrote on 8/14/2017 12:23 AM:

The events in Charlottesville have been pretty terrible, but if you watch the news videos you can see that these ultra right wing idiots *are* being denied their right to speak.

One we site I found listed a civil rights law that could be used to charge the driver with a Federal crime, an act of violence against someone exercising their right to speak. Reading the statute it seems it could be used against any of the protesters who threw punches, in particular the guy who cold cocked Jason Kessler as he spoke at a press conference. That was pretty brazen and on video.

I'm no white supremacist advocate by any means, but the 1st amendment is the

1st amendment. The whole idea is that it not be applied unevenly.
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Rick C
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rickman

rickman wrote on 8/13/2017 11:53 PM:

Looks like we won't need to worry about the monuments issue much longer. They are coming down by force. The monument in Durham, North Carolina was not even a specific war leader, just a Confederate soldier.

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

Den tirsdag den 15. august 2017 kl. 22.15.00 UTC+2 skrev rickman:

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Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

I get it... history that _you_ don't like has no place?

In other words you're part of the scum who believe freedom of speech means only what _you_want to hear.

We shouldn't be in the business of 'denouncing'.

Indeed! ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

It's arguable that those Southern heroes were traitors. I can see how black people in the south would be annoyed by having their towns full of statues of people who went to war to defend slavery.

I grew up in New Orleans. We didn't celebrate the 4th of July, because it was a Yankee holiday. Black people had their own schools, doctors, restaurants, and water fountains. Huge segments of society and the economy were legally off-limits to them.

We ate Congo Pie, which was actually Boston Cream Pie, but nobody wanted to admit to eating Yankee food.

The statue of Robert E Lee, in Lee Circle, had his back to the North.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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John Larkin
[snip]

Yep, American leftists are in the same league as ISIS/ISIL.

Wonder how soon they'll want to decimate Gettysburg and rid it of all monuments to the southern states?

(The latest rumor is that the left want to re-chisel Mount Rushmore... transform Jefferson into that scum-bag Obama.) ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

When white people were in charge, they enforced segregation and erected statues to Confederate leaders. Now, in many places, black people are in charge. They don't like some of those statues.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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John Larkin

John Larkin wrote on 8/15/2017 5:20 PM:

I don't think blacks around here give a rat's rear about statues of Confederates other than the fact that they are still used today as a rallying point for those who are filled with hate towards them.

Just how old *are* you? I barely remember my first grade class being segregated.

No small amount of that attitude remains today and is the reason behind all the resentment and fighting. Where's Rodney King when you need him? Oh, I see he passed a few years ago.

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

The vicious cycle :-( ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
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Jim Thompson

Jim Thompson wrote on 8/15/2017 5:52 PM:

The vicious cycle of statues? Yeah, I personally know people who hate Martin Luther King. They didn't care much for Obama either and it didn't have anything to do with his politics. It's obviously not about the statues. But it's not about the few who hold office either. It's about the community and the culture. The reason the Confederate statues are coming down isn't because of blacks being in power. It's because the community has diversified and everyone has a more equal standing. Other than the radical few, no one feels much sympathy for the thoughts behind the more egregious monuments or the culture behind honoring the defeated oppressors in the South.

No cycle. Times have changed and things won't be going back. It's called progress.

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

Most of those statues of grim old farts with big beards are ugly anyhow.

We have a nice statue of Willie Mays.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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John Larkin

Cecil Rhodes created a fund for scholarships for poor students to attend Oxford University and by way of thanks, some of those beneficiaries of Rhode's goodwill and generosity want his statue removed. They brand him a "racist" which just goes to prove that it's a total waste of time and resources to try to educate these brainless turds. Nice gratitude, eh?

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Cursitor Doom

Yes, it doesn't pay to be old and white nowadays; the most hated demographic to fall within.

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Cursitor Doom

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They won't be coming down by force in Richmond, it may take a shooting war but certain monuments are not coming down. They can have Davis, Maury and p ossibly (but not likely) the locally unpopular Lee, but there will be hell to pay if anyone goes near Jackson, Stuart or Hill.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

But we're "RED" (Retired, Extremely Dangerous) >:-}

(Fun movie) ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

Clearly you aren't paying attention. Since you need to be reminded... there's already hell being paid. I don't know when, but I bet sooner or later those monuments are coming down.

I remember a bridge in Richmond that is now an exhibit, the 1865 Exhibit. Every so many planks is a metal plate with a quote inscribed from the time of the fall of Richmond. As you walk they go from Lee's orders to retreat from Petersburg to a slave proclaiming her freedom because she saw President Lincoln in Richmond.

The Civil War is important to Richmond, but they are not immune to the ideas of democracy.

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Rick C
Reply to
rickman

That's what's happening, friends tell me, in South Africa. The formerly oppressed are now eager oppressors themselves.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

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war but certain monuments are not coming down. They can have Davis, Maury a nd possibly (but not likely) the locally unpopular Lee, but there will be h ell to pay if anyone goes near Jackson, Stuart or Hill.

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Honestly--/honestly/--ISTM the Democrat Party is reacting to recent criticism by disposing of inconvenient reminders of what *they* historically stood for.

But (weirdly) they'll keep the name and the brand, thank you very much.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

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