OT: "Better all the Time" essay in the New Yorker and US teacher training.

The November 10 2014 copy of The New Yorker has a "critic at large" essay from James Surowiecki.

It starts off on the training regimes of elite athlete's, which have become much more sophisticated and extensive over the last thirty years, and moves on through chess players and musicians to manufacturing industry, who had to learn from the Japanese what W. Edwards Deming had done for them. These are all success stories.

He then moves onto areas which hadn't seen the same emphasis on improving operator performance, starting with medicine, where "the number of serious medical errors has remained stubbornly high, as has the amount of wasted spending in the system" before moving on to the "one are above all where the failure to improve is especially egregious: education".

He contrasts US education with Finland, Japan and Canada's where teacher training is taken much more serious - both for teachers in training, before they get into the classroom, and for working teachers who get regular advice from their peers on how they can improve the fine details of their presentation.

He notes that some educational reformers in the US insist that all that's necessary is for US schools to be able to fire sub-standard teachers - which is more or less what James Arthur has posted here - which fits the "don't invest in your workers ethos" of many right-wing nitwits.

Surowiecki concludes with the observation that this isn't the way management now thinks about sports stars - "high performance isn't ultimately, about running faster, throwing harder or leaping farther. It's about something much simpler: getting better at getting better."

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman
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Private schools do not have this problem. In fact parochial schools not only do nothave this problem, but also don't try to teach teapartyism. (6,000 year Earth shit, you know)

The private sector has no problem doing it. What does that mean ?

Know what I want to know ? How many of these teachers and administrators' kids are in private schools or on schools in a better area than where they work.

Reply to
jurb6006

The critic at large there is out to lunch. You can take those excellent for eign trained teachers and put them to work in our "bad" schools. They don't last, they can't last. Even teachers from appalling third world origins le ave this cesspool country. The problems in US run much deeper, you can't go against nature and make the genetically ineducable educable. Arizona State University produced a report on US high school performance co nditioned on percentage of student population living in poverty. Our best s chools, unhindered by "problem" poverty student population,s outperformed e very school system in the world, our worst schools, and they get there with as little as 25% poverty student body, are the worst in the world. The nat ionwide average business is just a sucker propaganda money grab. Abortion i s the answer.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

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Japanese and Finnish teachers would have problems. The Canadians ought to b e okay.

ducable.

There's not much evidence of a heritable incapacity to learn. There's plent y of evidence that if you don't feed kids right, or force then to live in s ubstandard housing, they won't do well at school. If you merely tell them t hat they are lower caste, they tend to do badly too.

st

That's comparing apples and pears. The best foreign schools, drawing on ric h kids from high income suburbs, also outperform the rest of the schools in their countries.

t >body, are the worst in the world. The nationwide average business is jus t a >sucker propaganda money grab. Abortion is the answer.

Your worst schools are funded by the poor neigbourhoods where they are loca ted. In Australia education is organised state by state, and all the state-run s chools in any one state get roughly the same level of funding per pupil.

US school districts are a lot smaller, and tax the area they serve to pay t heir costs. Poor areas don't spend as much per head on education as rich ar eas.

It doesn't help.

More important, the US is a spectacularly unequal country

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looks at the correlation between inequality and poor education performance (in chapter 8) and it's significant and substantial, not only between count ries but also between the various US states.

Teacher training might help, but a more egalitarian income distribution wou ld too.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

On Saturday, November 15, 2014 10:02:19 AM UTC-5, Bill Sloman wrote: .

nty of evidence that if you don't feed kids right, or force then to live in substandard housing, they won't do well at school. If you merely tell them that they are lower caste, they tend to do badly too.

Okay then, we seem to have a certain ethnic minority in this country that's incredibly susceptible to becoming ineducable due to the slightest economi c disadvantage. There were plenty of Euro- and Asian minorities subjected t o the worst of the worst poverty and economic deprivation in this country a nd they used education as an opportunity and springboard for advancement.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

The problem with US (public) education system is people are perpetually wanting to tinker with it. All *claiming* to have the system's best interests in mind.

It's a case of too much "control" (as in "control system theory") and inadequate damping.

Everyone has an axe to grind and everyone wants to frame their actions as "improvements" (teachers, students, politicians right/left, *business* interests, etc.). But, in reality, everyone is out for their own particular interests.

The current (local) rage is to teach students to fill the available jobs. Great! Until, of course, the jobs *change* ("Well, teach a NEW BATCH!" "OK, but what do we do with the OLD BATCH?")

Basic competence is a swiftly fading idea. When you consider the number of "average" students on which we all depend for a wide variety of ESSENTIAL services (teachers, police, fire, health care support, finance, tradesmen, etc.), only a carefree fool would NOT be worried.

SWMBO worked at a local hospital. They were self-insured. As such, every employee *effectively* was a potential customer (strong financial disincentive to use any other hospital for your services -- even "routine tests"). Note this is health care -- potentially involving life saving services -- and not just "getting a 10% discount on the groceries at the grocery store where you work".

You would think that this would incentivize them to take *extra* care in their jobs, double-check their work, seek assistance when unsure of themselves, etc. If not for themselves, then its likely that one of their family members, coworkers, etc. would directly be affected by the quality and accuracy of their work!

"Why are there *90* tablets in this bottle when the Rx says 30?" (if you can't count -- or, can't even NOTICE that "gee, that sure looks like a helluvalot for '30'! -- then how do I know they are the RIGHT tablets???)

"Does this vaccine contain Neomycin?" "Hmmm... let me check. Yes, it does." "Did you not see the NEOMYCIN ALLERGY written in red letters at the top of the patient's chart??"

(In the surgical recovery ward) "Take this tablet" "What is it?" "Hitchykitchytweedledoxin 350" "I just took one of those." "No, you didn't." "Yes, I did. YOU gave it to me 5 minuntes ago!" "Well, it's not written down on your chart" "Um, was that *my* responsibility??"

Yet, the horror stories (that never make it to The Press) were terrifying in what they'd portend! (even the "simple" mistakes that don't cost a life, etc.) These are *basic* competencies that you would (?) expect folks to have (recognize 90 vs 30; read warnings on charts; record their actions on behalf of their patient charges)... not EXTRAORDINARY abilities!

[I met a guy at a local building supply who hesitated when I asked him to rip some plywood into 10.5" wide strips for me. He was "qualified" by the business to operate the saw (I, of course, can't!). Imagine my disbelief when he held out his tape rule and asked me to show him 10.5 inches... :< ]
Reply to
Don Y
[snip]

My last week's hardware store experience (hanging a fan and wanting separate light control)...

I want 5' of red #18 stranded... kid runs all over the store (True Value) trying to find a tape measure.

Old clerk comes along just as the kid is coming back, dumbfounded that he can't find a tape.

I opine, stepping on end of wire, pulling wire up to my eyeballs and cutting it.

Old clerk went into hilarious laughter and wrote me a slip for 5' of #18.

Kid was seriously flabbergasted ;-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142     Skype: skypeanalog  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

"basic competencies"

FWIW, many floor tiles are 12" squares -- this is the way I use to measure out my network cables. Holes in pegboard are nominally an inch apart. Drywall is 4 ft wide. 48" shop-lights/fluorescent tubes.

9" (paint) roller cover (times 6). [Personally, my hand span -- thumb to pinky -- is 10" so I'd have just used outstretched arms (nominally equal to your height... 6' in my case) and taken back "one hand-span". (they can front me the two inch discrepancy for my effort! :> ) ]

People just don't *think*.

I bought two (identical) $9.99 items at grocery store. I've got a

20 and two singles in my hands. Woman rings it up and tells me $43.xx. I smile ("silly girl").

"What's wrong with this picture?" "Huh?" "This is $9.99. Let's call it $10." And, I move the first bottle off to one side... "This is ALSO $9.99. (hell, it's just another one of the same bottle!) Let's call *it* $10. $10 + $10....?" "Yeah???" (clueless)

(sigh) "Just ring it up again, please..."

Makes me wonder what would have happened had *she* been the customer? Would it ever have occurred to her that $40 was an awful lot of money TO HAVE *PAID* for two bottles of...?

"Gee, it's only Tuesday and I'm already out of money for the week..."

Reply to
Don Y

That sounds like the same kind of braindead idiot who could ring up a $10,000.00 total on the cash register and not blink an eye.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

Yep... use that all the time. My house floor tiles are 20", so three of them are 5'.

My is only 8", thus my comment...

I have ordered a Zimmerman special...

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It fits my small hands perfectly.

That's an understatement. Of course, as everyone well knows, I'm a wee bit of a trouble maker... went into a Sears one time, 2nd floor. Los Arcos Mall, Scottsdale... not one clerk to be found... shouted at the top of my lungs, "Who the f**k is running the store"... emptied executive row >;-}

I've had the other condition, under-rung, and clerk belligerently insisted she was correct... so I just paid and left.

Just for yucks, suppose my tab is $8.27, hand the cashier a $10 bill, once rung up, hand 27 cents and amuse yourself watching the fluster

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142     Skype: skypeanalog  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Made baked stuffed shrimp, one day. You stuff Super Colossal (like 5 per pound) shrimp with crab meat, bread crumbs, garlic, etc. Living close to the coast, it wasn't (*as*) expensive to get quality seafood, fresh. Figure about $25/person for the seafood ingredients in this Rx.

I purchased enough for 4 of us at a little "ma and pa" shop. Mother's son (I am assuming?) waited on me. Rang up the bill and told me "That'll be $11, please". I've got a C-note in my hand...

I smile ("silly boy"). "What's wrong with this picture?"

[This has happened to me *so* often that I have the "routine" down to a rehearsed speech! :< ]

Mom is partially overhearing and *jumps* to *defend* her son (!), abandoning the customer that she had been waiting on at the time! ("What's the trouble, here??") Still smiling disarmingly, I let her look at my pending purchase, the C-note in my hand and then visibly shift my gaze to the cash register to direct her attention there.

("Ooops!")

Better is hand them *2* cents and watch them mimic "Robbie"s response (Forbidden Planet) when commanded to "shoot the commander" (i.e., the "overload" grinds all thought and action to a screeching halt).

When they try to hand me the $0.02 back, I gently tell them, "Just type it in to the cash register and let *it* do (your) thinking, for you..."

Cruel?

Reply to
Don Y

That too, but the real root problem is the fragmentation and local control of funding. The students from the poor areas of the country are educationally handicapped for a multitude of reasons, from lack of family patterning, to lack of simple resources such as books and adults they can talk to, to simple malnutrition. These same school districts are the ones with least money to spend on education, thus making sure that the situation will never improve.

The result is the paradox of the US being ranked 29th in the world for educational outcomes, while spending per pupil is one of the highest. The explanation is simple: we have very uneven, skewed distribution in both statistics: the wealthy school districts push up our average spending, while the crappy districts drag down our outcome stats.

Reply to
Przemek Klosowski

"I've got *mine* -- let *them* get *theirs*!!" :>

The same is true of other areas (e.g., healthcare, quality of life, "happiness", etc.)

No one really wants (or is incentivized!) to solve the(se) problems -- least of all, politicians. (sort of like police having no incentive to "rid the city of crime"... thereby eliminating the need for police! :-/ )

Instead, you get a patchwork of inefficient efforts that *look* like they may have promise but, eventually, just prove to be inefficient distractions. (Q: how do you measure success?)

One of the local non-profits for whom I've done work tries to support homeless students in getting them through "graduation" (as if having a high school diploma is the only thing "wrong" in their life!) They do this, largely, by "handouts" -- cash stipends to help cover their living expenses, clothing, foodstuffs, gift cards, medical care, etc.

This seems admirable. But, where's the "counseling"? Academic support? etc.? What incentive does a student have to actually *graduate* -- at which point the handouts cease?? (e.g., they can remain "in the program" until they are 21 or 22, I think) Does the agency actually *know* who their "most at risk" clients are at any given time? Or, do they just wait to be informed that "Billy dropped out" (and, what do they do

*after* hearing this??)

Of course, handing out "money" is easy to do! And, the more you hand out, the more you can claim you are "helping". The more you can go "begging", hat in hand, to your donors for additional funds!

[The fact that *you* get a building, nice offices, salary, health care, etc. is never really mentioned: "cost of doing busines^H^H^H charity!" :> ]

Much easier to deal with "technical problems" -- hence my focus on engineering! :>

Reply to
Don Y

Quote" That too, but the real root problem is the fragmentation and local control of funding. The students from the poor areas of the country are educationally handicapped for a multitude of reasons, from lack of family patterning, to lack of simple resources such as books and adults they can talk to, to simple malnutrition. These same school districts are the ones with least money to spend on education, thus making sure that the situation will never improve." End Quote

The above is mainly the issue. I have a ED degree. I student taught History and Political Science in Inner City And Suburban Districts. I've spent the last 20 years working in my hobby, outside my degree. We produce way too m any new teachers. We don't need them. Most can't find a career in Edu. So t he Dollar Spent per Education Student ratio is low.

The US is really not selective in screening new teachers. Canada, for exam ple, requires a BS(Honors) degree in your planned teaching field(S) and the teaching degree is a ADD-ON. The add on comes in the form of highly specia lized practice in classroom techniques.

Additional issues:

  1. US teaching methodology is "Learn, Regurgitate, Forget". US schools rare ly require nor do they reinforce retention of prior knowledge.

  1. Our classroom discipline is comical. Teachers fear parental and student complaints and NEED a union to back them up. The worse thing I could do as a beginner was send a note home, or call home. "My kid is perfect" is the p revailing parental attitude no matter where I was at. I found classroom tea ching to be more of a popularity contest then a profession.

If my students were not quiet and happy, my principal was looking for an excuse to see me kicked out of the building, ASAP. Easiest way to have a q uiet class, don't rock the boat. Don't expect performance. Don't expect eff ort. Do not encourage discussion or creative thinking. Just lecture and sho w movies. Curve your grades.

If you call a parent, your principal is likely to get a call. Principals and Superintendents are "political" animals. You meet the odd one who valu es learning. But most are worried about running a smooth ship and a balance d budget.

Again, It is a popularity contest until you have Tenure. Once you have Tenure, say five years experience and approval from the B.O.E and State, then you can ramp your game up.

  1. Methodology is not standardized between School Districts and Colleges of Education. Nor is curriculum particularly standardized. What I took in col lege classes and what was in my classroom textbooks were two different thin gs. Each College of Education, and in fact each discipline, can have radica lly different methods and standards.

I had to change colleges in mid stream, as one dropped my program. The fir st college was hard core, switched on, and would have made a drill sergeant proud. Methodology was important, as well as core curriculum in your teaching fiel d. Four years of Educational Psychology courses were required. Simulated cl assrooms were used. Practice lessons were videotaped weekly and critiqued. We had mock interviews with district superintendents. Practicing teachers c ame in and evaluated us.

Field experience hours in actual schools were required. You were expect ed to teach short lessons in your field experience. Some teachers would act ually hand you a classroom for a week under supervision. You were rotated t hrough all grade levels during field experience.

Compare and contrast that with:

The second program had one Ed Psych program for both primary and secondary education. Each year had about one week of practice teaching with critique. Field Experience was just to visit and take notes, only in your desired gra de level. Professors mainly lectured about what was expected of you in the field, based on their own techniques. Sadly most of those professors expect ed you to buy the text THEY had written.

My final exam as a teacher candidate was 30% on elementary education qu estions. Things like properties of tempura paint, ballet, and teaching of m usic. At College One, I would have been tested in my fields, not on my ball et skills.

BTW, You can be a Professor of Educational Methods in the US with nearly ze ro experience in actual schools. A year or two will suffice in most cases. Not all colleges allow this, but many do.

  1. The current trend is to move away from text books and onto teacher prepa red materials. Then when homework is assigned, the parents have no referenc e. It is brutal. I've had to help my neighbors with fundamental, elementary math. After all, none of them have factored integer numbers in 20 years.

  1. In my inner city experience: We assigned no homework. The reasoning, was you'd never see the book again. Most students had under the table jobs to help support their family, so they were always tired. All work was thus cla ssroom based. The Basketball coach would interrupt at least two of my class es weekly. Sports outweighed Geography. Drunken parents arrived at parent t eacher conferences.

Attendance could dip to 50% on some days. It is LEARNED HELPLESSNESS, not a cultural issue. Inner city in this case was mixed race. Very much a socio- economic issue. However if you expect to fail, you have little motivation t o better your position. You will then pass that on to your children.

  1. Social promotion was brutal as well. In the inner city, I had students w ho could not read in the 10th grade. I mentioned Learned Helplessness. When your future vision involves economic futility, you give up. Your children then give up. High scoring students were socially badgered and teased FOR W ORKING. So the cycle perpetuates.

  1. Even back then, we were expected to teach to the standardized tests. This adsorbs huge amounts of classroom time re-teaching what should have b een re-enforced by continual practice and applied problems.

On Average, most students forget more then seventy percent of what they wer e taught on any given day in less then three days.

I was taught to teach High School History, Political Science, and Geogr aphy, not to teach Sixth grade Math and Reading. Things like reading requir e "methods" courses to teach. So you can break down the problems in standar dized ways that are understandable. Yet I had to spend mandatory time on re medial sixth grade reading skills, without proper "methods". Ouch!

Do have some mercy on Education Students. If they passed, they spent one ye ar in a unpaid, 50 hour a week job, teaching in an actual classroom. It is not just an internship, by the end, you will have the full load of a experi enced teacher. On top of that they should have around six hundred field exp erience and volunteer hours in public schools. BTW, in most states, the Uni on does NOT protect the "Student" teacher as they do this internship.

If you ever meet me in person, ask about how "Strawberry Jam and Bread sank the Bizmarck". Six students gave me that answer, on a "Fill in the Blank" exercise.

Let the flames begin. I'm used to entrepreneurs telling me school does not train their employees. So I've heard it all before.

Steve R.

Reply to
sroberts6328

lenty of evidence that if you don't feed kids right, or force then to live in substandard housing, they won't do well at school. If you merely tell th em that they are lower caste, they tend to do badly too.

's incredibly susceptible to becoming ineducable due to the slightest econo mic disadvantage. There were plenty of Euro- and Asian minorities subjected to the worst of the worst poverty and economic deprivation in this country and they used education as an opportunity and springboard for advancement.

White Anglo-Saxon Protestants aren't all that interested in getting educate d. They see themselves as already sitting in the catbird seat, and aren't i nterested in social mobility to some potentially less comfortable place.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

They're also extinct, give or take, in the sense you mean it.

--
Les Cargill
Reply to
Les Cargill

Another bald assertion unconnected to any facts.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

I don't think people have a "feel" (sorry, I can't think of a better term) for number and operators. As a young kid, we started out with "number lines" drawn on the blackboard. You *saw* (visually) what "7" meant vs. "3", etc.

Before algebra, we dealt with "place holders" -- *boxes* that represented unknown values in equations. So, when the box later got replaced by an italic *letter* ('x'), it was no big deal -- easier to make x's than to draw all those silly boxes on our papers!

Ask a kid to "show me 37" (pick a number) and watch as he looks around trying to find something representative of "37". (Of course, he can pick damn near anything -- but, he hasn't realized that, yet!) *Then*, ask him to show you 1015. See how he approaches the problem -- or if he just "locks up" (because he picked a shelf with 37 books on it for his first answer and there are no shelves with 1015 books in this room! :> )

The Earth's (equatorial) circumference is ~25,000 miles. Imagine an inelastic string that hugs the Earth at the equator. That string would be 25000 miles long.

Now, imagine cutting the string and inserting an additional 1 yard length before mending it, again. Now, assuming the string reassumes its circular shape, how big is the gap between it and the Earth?

If it takes you more than 5 seconds to answer, you don't understand the math involved.

[Likewise, the "three guys rent $10 hotel rooms" problem. Neither of these are "problems" when you have a grasp of the math involved]

I prepare "working notes" in a publishable form to remind me about my thinking process as I reached a particular solution. They're intended for my own use as its not always possible to remember some clever realization that may have occurred to me while pursuing a problem. But, surprisingly often have value to others tackling the same problem or something that I think may be related. It's far better than the approach which many professors use to present information -- with large steps omitted ("left as an exercise for the student") -- as it's *me* arguing with myself regarding different aspects of a solution.

It forces me to focus on the assumptions that are *safe* to make (because they are set out explicitly in the description) and those extra "degrees of freedom" that are available to me that I might have overlooked in a more casual/informal documentation process.

Reply to
Don Y

cated. They see themselves as already sitting in the catbird seat, and aren 't interested in social mobility to some potentially less comfortable place .

So find the kind of fact that would disprove the assertion. Sociology has w orked out ways of answering a number of interesting questions, but point Fr ed Bloggs was making - without adducing any evidence - was one on which rel iable sociological evidence is rather thin on the ground, though racists an d the like have been known to produce results which look as if they support Fred's point of view, until you look at them carefully.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

Yeah, Slowman likes to make up stuff..

Jamie

Reply to
Maynard A. Philbrook Jr.

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