OT: Algebra is a civil rights issue

bloggs probably didn't need to take the SAT's... are they required for juvenile detention school ?>:-} ...Jim Thompson

I was approached by a well-known national technical 'university' to teach some courses. What they offered as compensation wouldn't even cover my gasoline costs. I declined. ...Jim Thompson

While I was going to high school, I worked during the summers. After work I took welding at the vo tech school. The classes ran from 6 to 8:45 and then from 9:15 to midnight. About half of the time, I managed to last till midnight, and the rest of the time I went home after 8:45. And then when I retired I took a welding class to learn Tig welding.

But never earned any money as a welder.

Dan

John Larkin wrote on 7/21/2017 12:13 PM:

Really? Most engineers know how to use math well.

John Larkin wrote on 7/21/2017 1:24 PM:

You've just forgotten most of it since? You always talk about how hard math is for you. You seem to do anything to avoid it. I know a lot of high school kids like that.

In reality, if you aren't on a science track, why learn algebra? It's a bit like requiring science majors to take Medieval history. Nice to know, but how useful will it be? There's only so many hours of class time available to get a degree. I seem to recall the EE program at U of Md had some 130 hours of requisites. Other programs get you out the door in 120 credits with room for electives. I think at Drexel EE was a five year program.

Everywhere I worked , drawings were signed off by a checker. The checker made sure the print was properly dimensioned and able to be made.

Dan

Then they are faced with the CNC and the lack of algebra knowledge causes them major trouble. Simple math won't cut it anymore if one wants to reach higher job levels in many such fields.

I inquired about teaching analog circuit design at a local college. Pay was not so important because at some point one has to give back. I was told that I need the "proper credentials" first. Really? So I went into other "giving back" fields without such non-sensical stone-walling and fiefdom behavior. Where I don't even get gas money and that's ok. Best of all, no union.

Like most of JT's posts, this is another one that should be killed. {>:-}

Machinists can hardly be called scientists. Yet those who do not master algebra will soon hit a hard ceiling when moving up the ranks and into serious CNC territory. They will be left behind by their peers who do master algebra, who will then land the better jobs and enjoy higher pay.

The same goes for people who go into accounting, business management, sales, marketing, and so on. They will eventually have to come up with a formula here and there, jockey with a database, stuff like that. When they can't they'll hit a hard career ceiling.

I am all for ditching nonsensical state-mandated stuff but tossing out STEM courses is the perfect path to mediocrity. Down the hill. Which ultimately will result in higher structural unemployment and a diminishing labor force participation rate.

It's the same nonsense as easing off on requiring all classes to be taught in English. That results in a 2nd class work force. People who will likely never land a really well-paying job.

Maybe things have changed. In the early '70's I made such an offer to Scottsdale Community College... I would teach 'associates' level classes for free. My offer was declined... I didn't have a 'teachers certificate'. ...Jim Thompson

I taught a college class which was entitled " Intro to Computer Architecture " but it was really introduction to elementary logic. ( hey the college provided a syllabus ) I was surprised that the college wanted my grade transcript. Most colleges did not have a computer when I was in college.

My boss at that time put the pressure on me to teach the course. The pay was poor as were most of the students. And the next year I declined.

Dan

I never used calculus in engineering, But the concepts of first and second derivative were useful. Not only in control circuits but also in investing. Could have used a course in " math concepts ".

Dan

Our production manager is also a super machinist and does a lot of our mechanical design, and programs our CNC machines. I don't think he does any algebra or trig. He uses Autocad and Solidworks, a lot like I use Spice. There's no reason to do the math to calculate a hole location when you can let Autocad do it for you. Numerical solutions do not require symbolic solutions.

I guess I've hit mine!

Ummm...this is the 21st century, ditches are dug by machines.

It's important to understand, to feel, the basic concepts: algebra, trig, polynomials, circuit theory, signals-and-systems, physics, thermo, maybe some optics. It's not necessary any more to grind out solutions by hand.

Thet's why education should be less abstract, more related to the real world. When I took EE classes, stuff meant a lot more to me than it did to the other guys, because my amateur experience with electronics connected the theory to actual circuits.

I can't think of a single example of when algebra is required to operate a CNC machine. Program one, sure sometimes (not often). But not to either set up or run one. If a shop's busy, machinist shouldn't be wasting time standing at a machine writing and punching in a program anyway.

If you always have CAM files for everything you machine it's ok. However, many machine shops that support a large production unit get requests all the time with just sketches. Or where the machinist has to gown up, go into the clean room and take measurements. Some of those production tools can't really be machined without CNC and the machinist has to generate the formulae and code.

Algebra can be found in fields where one would never expect it. For example, I design a lot of electronic for the oil industry. It was surprising how algebra-heavy their sensor stuff is.

Full confession: I was never a math genius either. My dad always said that when it comes to difficult classes I'd try to hop on the train at the last second and that one day I'd miss and hit the dirt.

A couple years ago I had a really tough formula to hash out. One where I needed to extend the sheet of paper because it got too long even in small print. I was close to giving it along with some money to a university student to solve.

I've had to use calculus before. I may not have calculated numbers very often, but knowing the form of the solution can say a lot. Often I just want to know how things scale.