On topic: Teaching kids engineering

Interesting. Do they do something like that in the Netherlands?

--
Regards, Joerg

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..

Yeah, there's a discussion on this over on slashdot -

On a sunny day (Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:50:48 -0700) it happened Joerg wrote in :

Not that I know, but it has been a while since I was in kindergarten :-) I have mentioned many times in newsgroups that all kids learn these days is 'parroting'. There is just too much info dumped on these kids, maybe to keep them of the streets. I hope internet will change some of that, as they can go where their talents are. I do remember that in my case when I wanted books about radio and TV when I was

5 or 6 it needed a waver from the library to get those, actually got one. I would have loved internet, so much you can discover. It was very difficult to get any good educational material at that age. I remember I asked my father some basic questions about electromagnetism, and he freaked out (did not have a clue) and told me: You will learn that later in school. I think I still have not heard the answer that satisfies me :-) I was always experimenting with electronics and stuff, miracle how I got my hands on it. It is absolutely great that they allow those kids to think for themselves now, that is the age where the brain is sort of hardwired, those kids will become problem solvers. Maybe not all of them, but those that do have it in them will.

'parroting'.

streets.

Yes, plus parents dump the job of education onto government. Which then raises taxes on everyone because kids "absolutely have to" go to pre-school and kindergarden. Which is absolute baloney and my generation is proof of that. There simply was no kindergarden, and we didn't need one.

are.

I hope for the same. But it would require them to let go of MTV, Youtube, iTunes and so on. At least to some extent.

was 5 or 6

Strange, in Germany we did not need waivers. You could pick any book you wanted to. Even one that was called "Construction of Eavesdropping Transmitters". Seriously.

later in school.

hands on it.

problem solvers.

They will. In our days we were also very free, much more so than today's school kids. The epitome of joy were bulk waste days, when people put their old radio and TV sets out to the curb. That netted me so much in parts that I rarely needed moeny to build stuff.

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Regards, Joerg

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I remember being disappointed somewhere in the ballpark of middle school when I asked my grandfather -- who had a EE degree, but had been retired for a few decades and before that had been in upper management for quite some time -- how a bridge rectifier worked and his saying he "no longer" recalled. :-(

Yep, agreed!

When I was in 2nd or 3rd grade the teacher gave us all little personalized assignments to go build, draw, create, or whatever and mine was... "build a toy car with wheels that can support it *and turn*." I was quite convinced this was the most "advanced" assignment of any of them, and was proud that I was its recipient. :-) (My toy car ended up being made of wood blocks and cardboard. The wheels were cardboard since the tools to fashion wooden wheels weren't available, and I don't think you were allowed to start hacking up the wooden blocks even if you were, say, good at whittling... :-) )

---Joel

Yesterday we saw the movie "Race the Sun" with Halle Barry etc. Supposedly in part based on a true story about how a truly motivated teacher can turn disinterested kids around and make them do great technical design work. Very good movie.

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Regards, Joerg

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'parroting'.

streets.

There is so much to get interested in. I see the same thing with my kids. My oldest son isn't interested in technical stuff at all. I still have hope for my youngest son though. However finding a not-so-crappy electronics experiments kit is a real PITA though.

later in school.

hands on it.

problem solvers.

Yeah the good old days. Where I lived they also had bulk waste days once per month. People could pile their large garbage at designated area's for the garabage collectors to pick it up. At such days I went out early (before school started) and picked up as much electronics as I could. I could gut a TV within a minute with just a plier and a screw driver. Competition was though; there where also people harvesting metals like aluminium. After school I'd normally take an extra round but the good stuff was usually gone by then.

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Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
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nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
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'parroting'.

streets.

I think in Europe there is still Galileo, Kosmos and Busch. Maybe more. Ask in a NG there.

later in school.

hands on it.

now,

problem solvers.

Nowadays, if you strike up a nice conversation at a recycling center you might be able to cajole them into giving you some old modems and stuff. There's a ton more variety of parts to be had than in our days. And all you really need to scavenge is a good heat gun. Plus patience, to decipher and look up the SMT codes. I sometimes take apart consumer gear just to learn, mostly about packaging, and I am amazed about the hotrod RF stuff I sometimes see in there. When I was a kid a BFY90 cost a whopping and painful four Deutschmarks and its ft was not even 1/10th of what you find for free today.

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Regards, Joerg

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On a sunny day (Mon, 14 Jun 2010 12:50:18 -0700) it happened Joerg wrote in :

LOL, I looked at 'From Dusk till Dawn'.

OTOH last week I bought the original 'West Side Story' DVD. The music is great, so are the colors (filming). Both are classics in their genre I think. I bought the DVD because I wanted to see it again (xxxth time). Timeless.

'parroting'.

streets.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

I rather get rid of such junk :-) Every know and then I bring stuff back from the recycling center though. Mostly TFT screens. These are easy to fix and handy to have around. One day I found an HP 6038 power supply over there. Working perfectly except a knob was missing. Pity it got stolen from me. Easy comes easy goes...

Yes and no. SMD parts are so cheap these days it is hardly worth the effort. Back in the old days I have desoldered a lot of parts. I still have huge loads of 4000 CMOS and 74 TTL-ish chips in DIP packages.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

[...]

On LCDs it's often busted backlight inverter transistors. What's the typical damage on TFTs?

Ok, but things like a 100mW wideband GHZ RF amp do cost a few Euros. I don't know what kids over there get as allowance these days but that's a lot of money. Same for HD-44780 compatible LCD modules. Those are 5-10 Euros. Free and ready to use if you scrap them out of a discarded fax machine.

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Regards, Joerg

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So far I've found bad capacitors, bad solder joints and fusible resistors. Bad solder joints in the PSU may cause catastrophic failures.

I recently came across several of those displays in all shapes and sizes when going through my old stock. Anyway I wouldn't mind spending a few euro's on a sensible project. The experience gained is worth many times more than the money spend.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

I've heard that a lot but mostly from Europeans. You must have gotten a barrage of sour capacitors. The only one that died here was the buffer cap in a rather old Minolta camera.

Sure, but back in my days spending a few Deutschmarks or later Guilders was not so easy. Because they simply weren't there most of the time.

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Regards, Joerg

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I'm OK with giving kids some allowance for doing chores or whatever given that these days it's pretty much impossible for a kid to find a regular paying job until they're 16 or older.

When I was first in college those HD44780 displays were 3/$24 from Timeline, Inc. -- as advertised in Circuit Cellar Ink. At that point I had a job making something like $5.50/hour, and I'm pretty sure I would have rather worked another couple of hours to get one rather than tearing apart discarded FAX machines (or whatever) and crossing my fingers that it really was a working HD44780-compatible unit -- since I expect that would have taken rather *more* than a couple of hours total. :-)

On the other hand, you did occasionally come across wondeful things like discarded fractional-kilowatt transformers or VARIAC cores -- THOSE were definitely worth hauling away, even when they weighed 40lbs.! (There were also a lot of multi-kilowatt transformers down in the basement of the building I worked in... they still belonged to the University, but since they weren't being used, usually it was no problem borrowing them if you could find the right person to ask... although sometimes the things had been sitting there for many years, and no one seemed to know who that person was...)

---Joel

Usually they work. Thing is, there's a whole lot more goodies in fax machines. Stepper motors, a 24/7-proof switch mode supply, fairly linear audio transformers from the modem part, and so on.

The most important thing for me though was to learn the tricks of the trade. I wanted to know how they design a fax machine that is assembled in China for a grand total of around $10. Hands-on is the best learning experience.

At my university there was only one used-electronics junkyard in town, not affiliated with the university, and very small. You could find the occasional transformer there but that was about it. A really good source were the mil surplus shops in the Netherlands (dump handel) and since I live that side of the border I didn't have to get anything through customs. Nowadays kids have it easier because this border is gone.

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A couple hours? More like 15 minutes. :)

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Perhaps. But you can spend a lot of time -- if this is the first time you're interfacing to an HD44780 -- discovering that the LCD is bad rather than your own setup!

If it's actually marked "HD44780," I'd go for it... but if not... I'd spend the $8.

Joerg is right to point out that it's still worth salvaging a FAX machine, though, for all the other goodies inside.

And then try out the salvaged LCD *after* you get the store-bought one working. :-)

that

job

The neighbor kid want's $25 to mow the lawn; not a bad hourly wage. I'd even do it for that. ;-)

that

I let my yard go to seed this spring. I'll start mowing parts of it at daybreak each day, to annoy some bad neighbors who play their stereo too loud. :)

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.