OK Brains - Eyes

I am now scheduled for measurement on the 29th this month and actual catara ct surgery on the 23rd of next month.

I have serious floaters. I mean they slow me down reading. I see bugs where there are none. Get my driver's license back ? I DON'T WANT IT ! Not like this.

So the cataract surgery is going to pretty much put my left eye into the sa me "mode" as the right. STRONG reading glasses. So that's bad enough.

So, there is this "vitrectomy" they can do that gets floaters out. Not all of them but...hey, some is better than none. My doc years ago recommended a gainst it, I don't remember her words but I remember that they seemed to ex press "It is a HUGE pain in the ass". The doctor now said it was very rarel y done because there is alot of risk. Well the odds of error go up right wi th difficulty, we know that.

There is another option, but in my case might not be so good, but we still don't know because I didn't get the info I wanted. The vitrectomy :

"Surgery to remove the vitreous. An ophthalmologist removes the vitreous th rough a small incision (vitrectomy) and replaces it with a solution to help your eye maintain its shape. Surgery may not remove all the floaters, and new floaters can develop after surgery. Risks of a vitrectomy include bleed ing and retinal tears."

My main question here is if my fluid is like filtered and replaced after th e other fluid has done its job in keeping my eye sphere inflated. I thought they used Freon, does anyone know about this shit ?

There is another possibility :

"Using a laser to disrupt the floaters. An ophthalmologist aims a special l aser at the floaters in the vitreous, which may break them up and make them less noticeable. Some people who have this treatment report improved visio n; others notice little or no difference. Risks of laser therapy include da mage to your retina if the laser is aimed incorrectly. Laser surgery to tre at floaters is used infrequently."

That is probably safer, but it results in the existing floaters not going a way, but being ground to piece to float around in the humor. If it homogeni zes then it is ALL hazy. And the more floaters you got the more hazy it wil l be, and I got ALOT.

I am a gambling Man, but I like to know the game. If both my eyes are good like next year, I might go get this done to one. If then I am one eyed then I won't do it again. Out of pot/odds, not from fear. I will take the risk if that risk is acceptable.

What say you ?

Reply to
jurb6006
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I've done one eye and should do the other one eventually. The surgery was trivial, but the complications weren't. You are unlikely to have complications.

I now have one eye that focusses at about 10" and the other at about

  1. That's a great combination for bench work and reading and computing. I wear glasses when I drive.

Yeah, I have floaters and sometimes black bugs flying around my periphery. And I have auras and hallucinations. That is all sort of fun.

You can have any focal length that you want. Talk to someone about that. Both eyes don't need to be the same: your brain will process all the available information nicely.

I had a vitromectomy, as a result of the complications (retinal detatch) of my cataract surgery. I have a lot of astigmatism, and that increases the odds of a detatch. They drained the vitreus humor, stuck the floating retina back down, and pressurized my eyeball with Freon. Really. The refractive index of Freon is all wrong, so I couldn't see a thing. My body took about a month to slowly refill with saline... the humor doesn't come back for some reason. The optical effects were very weird. That eye has some very fine floaters, much better than the unmodified one.

It's amazing what they can do with eyes. The Thai guy who fixed me has saved thousands of other eyes. He works for Kaiser on a salary. He could make a few million a year in private practice but doesn't care about the money.

I started with the tear, and needed the vitromectomy to fix it. Tears can be repaired.

Yes, Freon. Then your body will slowly refill with basically saline. None of that is painful.

Do the cataract thing for sure. If the floaters are a real annoyance, do the vitromectomy too. The vitromectomy will change your focal length a little, so you can account for that when you do both together.

As noted, a tear or a detatch, both unlikely, can be fixed. Make sure your doctors are good.

If you don't have astigmatism, your odds of a complication are lower.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

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John Larkin

Thank you. I guess the next step is to grill my Opth guy and ask just HOW M UCH risk there is and if he has done it before. He said it is done very rar ely. I can do the internet thing and get some info, but it is better to hea r from someone who has been through it.

You know, there have been times I turned down work because it was something I had no confidence in doing because it was not east and I had no experien ce with it. If he's never done one, if he says so then that is good. No dis respect for a Man who admits his limitations, and I am not so sure about so meone learning on me but they have to learn somehow.

Anyway, so you're saying (?) that your own body slowly refills the eye and you are pretty much blind in one eye during that, until it is full ? If I r ead that right, how long does it take ?

Reply to
jurb6006

Oops, somehow I missed the part where you said it took about a month.

But it's not like they use some artificial shit that a few years down the r oad will result in a class action lawsuit.

To let off the pressure do they install like a vent ? My Father had a touch of glaucoma and they put in I think what's called a shunt, which allows th e eye to drain. No pot smoking required. Do they do that or do you have to keep going in and get it drained a bit ?

Reply to
jurb6006

Rule of thumb: if the chances of any severe negative outcome (like e.g. serious complications from a surgery that otherwise would materially improve your quality of life) can be either subjectively or objectively estimated to be less than 5% one should try to exclude it from the cost-benefit analysis.

Otherwise one just falls into a mire of paralysis about all the possible terrible things that could go wrong and that goes for many many situations one could come up with in life. Unfortunately in this life there isn't any true sure bet or real safety to be had.

Keep in mind modern medicine can't actually manufacture good health out of nothing the best it can really do is buy time (at generally enormous cost.) Indecision that goes beyond the bounds of what might be considered "due diligence" is unfortunately the process by which less valuable time is converted into the very expensive kind. Not really a great value.

It can certainly be hard to do. I have a fear of flying. I know intellectually all the reasons that such a fear doesn't make much logical sense. Still doesn't make the mechanical operation of actually getting on an aircraft that much easier.

Reply to
bitrex

Imagine seeing the world through a porthole from inside a ship that's slowly sinking, in rough weather. The top part is foggy and the bottom, the water, slowly gets clear. Bubbles and waves. It was pretty weird.

The freon leaks out somehow as the liquid replaces it; it just happened. After it was all over, the tiny stitches were removed from the two incisions that he worked through. No vents or anything.

Dr B (nobody can pronounce his full name, about 20 letters) had a student MD that he was showing how to do the retina repair (at 10 PM) and vitrotectomy, so I got to listen to the step-by-step procedure.

He gave me a choice on the retina repair: do it in his office right there, with a 90% chance of success. Or check into the hospital and have a 99% chance. I went for 99.

I did get a secondary cataract as a result of the vitromectomy, which is clouding of the inner layer of the lens capsule; the outer layer is removed when the cataract surgery is done. The secondary is fixed by drilling a big hole in the capsule with a yag laser. In my case, everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong.

I suppose I'll do the other eye soon.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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John Larkin

I say this is begging for development of a small pump with a filter. Install a tube on each side of the eye and start the pump. The vitreous fluid gets sucked out of one side and pumped back in on the other side. The pump and tubing volume must be as small as possible, and may need to be preloaded with some fluid to keep the eye inflated. I have a few floaters, but they aren't a hindrance. I used to have a large floater, but it seems to have disappeared on it's own. Mikek

Reply to
amdx

aract surgery on the 23rd of next month.

Complications are not so unlikely. It depends on various factors. If you have waited too long the lens gets brittle and breaks into pieces when remo ved making the surgery much harder. Because of other risks (infection not being the least) they won't do the surgery until you are sufficiently impai red. So there is a "sweet" spot of degradation.

ere there are none. Get my driver's license back ? I DON'T WANT IT ! Not li ke this.

same "mode" as the right. STRONG reading glasses. So that's bad enough.

ll of them but...hey, some is better than none. My doc years ago recommende d against it, I don't remember her words but I remember that they seemed to express "It is a HUGE pain in the ass". The doctor now said it was very ra rely done because there is alot of risk. Well the odds of error go up right with difficulty, we know that.

The humor is not a fluid, it is more of a gel. It does not return, but flu id is ok.

Lol! Fake news. Ophthalmologists don't make millions per year. They do m ake a good living, but not millions typically.

ll don't know because I didn't get the info I wanted. The vitrectomy :

through a small incision (vitrectomy) and replaces it with a solution to h elp your eye maintain its shape. Surgery may not remove all the floaters, a nd new floaters can develop after surgery. Risks of a vitrectomy include bl eeding and retinal tears."

Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't. Depends on the cause.

the other fluid has done its job in keeping my eye sphere inflated. I thou ght they used Freon, does anyone know about this shit ?

l laser at the floaters in the vitreous, which may break them up and make t hem less noticeable. Some people who have this treatment report improved vi sion; others notice little or no difference. Risks of laser therapy include damage to your retina if the laser is aimed incorrectly. Laser surgery to treat floaters is used infrequently."

g away, but being ground to piece to float around in the humor. If it homog enizes then it is ALL hazy. And the more floaters you got the more hazy it will be, and I got ALOT.

Floaters are not dirt or other foreign material. They are material that ha s sloughed off the inside of the eye. They are normal at all ages... in sm all quantities. This material (largely protein) is broken down by enzymes. As we get older the material is sloughed off faster than the enzymes can break them down and the concentration builds up. Blasting them into small pieces may help the enzymes digest them, but it will only be a temporary im provement as new material is sloughed off the eye wall.

od like next year, I might go get this done to one. If then I am one eyed t hen I won't do it again. Out of pot/odds, not from fear. I will take the ri sk if that risk is acceptable.

The floaters will return no matter what you do. Ask your doctor about your case and what you can expect. Advice of people who spend a large part of their day arguing with each other on the Internet is not the best idea. I was helped immensely by a Yahoo group for hip resurfacing. I suggest you f ind a group relating to cataracts and floaters. You can get possibly bette r advice there but if nothing else they can point you to real information.

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

e road will result in a class action lawsuit.

uch of glaucoma and they put in I think what's called a shunt, which allows the eye to drain. No pot smoking required. Do they do that or do you have to keep going in and get it drained a bit ?

The clouding of the inner layer has nothing to do with the vitromectomy. M y roommate had the cataract surgery and later had to have the laser surgery on the capsule.

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

large floater, but it seems to have disappeared on it's own. Mikek "

They may break up on their own sometimes. Dunno. It might even get stuck somewhere somehow.

Reply to
jurb6006

Not sometimes, they always dissolve on their own. The problem is more are made just as fast.

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

That sounds unpleasant.

Lasers have been used to break up floaters.

My original (left) eye has some pretty big floaters. The modified (right) one (vitromectomy, no vitreus humor any more) has tiny ones, and some look like tadpoles that swim rapidly across my visual field. I think they may be part of the eyeball cleanup crew.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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Reply to
John Larkin

All around the edge of your cornea there are tiny openings that let liquid flow out. If they get blocked, then you have glaucoma.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

Well I got a real stubborn one in the left eye and I know it has been the same. It turns and I can see it is shaped like the letter "I".

Reply to
jurb6006

liquid flow out. If they get blocked, then you have glaucoma. "

Now there's something I didn't know. Thanks. The olman had glaucoma and the y put a drain in. I never thought there was a natural drain already there, but it just got clogged up. I thought it just left due to osmosis or whatev er.

I guess that prescription government killer pot is out then...

Thanks all, I think I am going to push for this, if the guy never did one t hen I guess I'll have to deal with that. First I need rid of the cataract a nd then that means months of waiting I am sure. After I "see" the results t hen I can decide which eye to have done. Then I figure it would be a good i dea to wait a year or two to find out the long term effects. Or since the r ight eye has been done as far as the lens, maybe have that uninjured one do ne first. but if my vision is, well I don't know. If it is better in the le ft what to do ? Have the right done ?

I definitely need to do somemore thinking on this but at least now I got mo re information.

Reply to
jurb6006

Looks like your body produces aqueous humor to replace the vitreous humor.

"But what of our original question: What eventually fills the vitreous chamber after the gas diffuses out? The answer is aqueous humor. In a typical patient, the ciliary body makes enough aqueous humor to replace the entire anterior chamber volume every few hours ? plenty fast enough to fill the vitreous chamber."

"Aqueous humor is a clear liquid found between the cornea and the lens of eye, whereas vitreous humor is a clear gelatinous mass found in the rear part of the eyeball between the lens and retina."

Mikek

Reply to
amdx

The human eye is a very weird design, with the retina inverted from the structure that most animals use. A consequence is that the retina is loosely attached to the eyeball and can peel away relatively easily. The vitreus humor is thick, and a shock can make the vitreus goo pull the retina off the inside of the eyeball. Drying vitreus can do that too. The aqueous replacement is better in that respect.

My doctor lasered my retina in a bunch of places, essentially spot welding it down.

I still occasionally get a tiny bubble in the fluid, but they soon go away. The floater situation is much better than the other eye.

I'm often impressed that evolution not only created insanely complex structures, but somehow included repair mechanisms for low-probability failure modes.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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Reply to
John Larkin

A friend has wet macular degeneration and periodically gets blood clots in his vitreous humor. They do not dissolve so easily on their own. He receives monthly shots to help the process and to help prevent future occurrences.

Rick C.

Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

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