O.T. Moody’s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating

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https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-tax-cuts-putting-america-203051912.html


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 Thanks,
    - Win

Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On Thursday, 13 December 2018 15:46:05 UTC-5, Winfield Hill  wrote:
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From yesterday:-

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-12/markets-conclude-u-s-treasuries-are-riskier-than-chinese-debt

Markets Conclude the U.S. Is Riskier Than China
Now the Treasury has to pay a premium over Chinese bonds to attract investors. They see four major red flags in U.S. debt.

Best Regards,  
--Spehro Pefhany

Re: O.T. Moody’s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
wrote:

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I remember when Japan was going to crush the US financially, to own
the semiconductor market.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/economy/article/2142365/imf-warns-shadow-banking-poses-high-risk-chinas-financial

The future is hard to predict.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: O.T. Moody’s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating

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A high risk is US sanctions on Iran,
that forces the EU and other world powers to look for a different exchange medium
than the US dollar and banks.
EU is working on that now.
If world trade is done in Chinese currency or Euros, then it is all over for the US,
leaving war as its only option.
A war they will lose as everybody and their cat now has their nukes pointed at it.

I think this is trumps plan, have the US destroyed by others, draft everybody to rebuild it and work for free.
However there will be few if anybody left to rebuild it as the 'merricans will flee in boats and bathtubs
across the Pacific and Atlantic to Europe where they will ask for asylum.
As Merkel steps down in Germany asylum will be difficult to obtain.
China does not want them either, and Japan the least of all I'd say.
:-)
Some who make it in their bathtub to Down Under will be put put on some island on the coast
near the old nuclear testing site...  
So those who try to flee towards Mexico will be stuck in the wall and other barriers.
Some who flee toward Canada will be met with great suspicion, if lucky they make it walking through the cold to Russia,
where they will be put to work cleaning up the radiation.
Glowballworming will have caused seawater to rise by several meters causing the UK to disappear beneath  
well Britannica rules the waves or the waves rule Britannica, oh well, those will flee to Europe mainland too.

An ice age will follow and human population will decrease significantly and in the long term the sun will expand
melt the ice and everybody on the planet and now the only change is bathtubs into space,
or a few may make colonies on other planets, will adapt after many generation to a different atmosphere
or the species will simply go extinct if it does not get itself together.
All trumps fault.
Maybe SpaceX will save the species.

Do I need more or less of this coffee?


Re: O.T. Moody’s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
wrote:

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Money is freely convertable and is fungible. Dollars are convenient
but it doesn't matter much. Why would anybody start a war over
basically exchange rates?

The US is now an oil and gas exporter, which makes Iran an econonmic
rival. But Russia is an oil and gas exporter too. So is Canada. Let's
declare war on Canada; it's conveniently close.

Actually, we should declare war on Venezuela; they really need it.


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Gold plated bathtubs.

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Interesting scenario. Musk as emperor. St Elon.


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More. I'm slamming down a cup of very strong Peets right now.

Civilization really began when coffee, tea, sugar, and chocolate were
imported into Europe in quantity.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: O.T. Moody’s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
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It is not that, it is the power.
Much of US bullying is about sanctions, grabbing money from people,
forcing governments or leaders out of power.
That is also what they do in Venezuela, trying a regime change at all cost (to the locals).
US tries it with sanctions on Russia, threatenes EU with sanctions if we buy Russian gas and not US inferior crap gas,  
An other very important factor is supporting Saudi Arabia, however evil the current leaders may be,
because those recognize israel.
A look at he stock markets since trump came in power, well look:
 http://markets.on.nytimes.com/research/markets/overview/overview.asp?src=busfn
shows that only Israel, Saudi Arabia and Brazil are in the positive.
Brazil is an ultra-right leader who just today got accused of corruption while he claimed to be fighting it in his election campaign.
What's new.
Policing the world, do not make me laugh, well OK if you compare it to some of the US police, then yes,
Holding countries at gun point (for example to buy crappy US weapons) is a better way to describe it.
For sure it is a human aspect, and the leaders have less ethics than the normal people.
Creating a common enemy to distract attention away from internal problems is nothing new either,
now Russia has 'dunnit.
Oil price now is too low for countries like Russia to feel good by, 70 would be better.
It hurts Venezuela too, but that country is pestered in so many other ways by the US.
So trump is a puppet of israel..  
The world has changed and is changing, Rome fell ... 'And Carthage must be destroyed' did not help it a bit in the end.
Nobody has fear anymore for US weapons, any decent engineer can make those, make underwater vessels to deliver those
to US harbors.
Who needs long range bombers if you can do it for a couple of thousand Euro?
israel will fall, it is too small, 3 nukes or less for ever takes it out, and nothing you can do.
The only solution would be if it actually accepted peace, and treated others in a better way (Palestinians comes to mind)
but in the one ant heap against the other that scenario will never happen.
What will happen is that the nukes will fly.

It is, likely, all part of evolution, but evolution made the dinos, and evolution got rid of those.
Without control of world finances the US dollar will lose all its value, it is is called inflation.
In one way that makes exports cheaper, but then you need something of value that others want to buy.
that bit of low quality oil won't do.

Technology will come from China.
Today Apple surrendered and in the fight Qualcom versus Apple where China just introduced a sales stop for Apple,
Apple degraded their own system to comply with Chinese regulations..
so not as to violate the Qualcom patents (Chinese court view is they do).
All your money and all your influence is nill.
EU an China just strengthened the Belt and Road idea, many countries in South America and even Africa are on board in that too,
in fact almost ALL the world except US.
Take a real globe, and look at the small spot N America is compared to the rest.
get some sense of reality.
So if things continue the way they go now the best thing the US can hope for is to become a third world
low wages assembly place for the rest of the world.

Super inflation will inflate some of its debt away perhaps...
China and Japan hold much of US debt, so from some perspective own it,
and in some way that still prevents them for letting it super-inflate.
But a clueless 'precedent' will ruin it anyways,
Nobody trusts US anymore after it withdrew for international agreements and organizations,
and trust is what makes world trade happen.

It is over.
face it, Rome fell, Italy's budget was recently rejected by the EU, they had to change it to show a lower deficit,  
it is a minor player now, so is the US.

Any attempt to gain back control by making war will fail now, you have no allies, only 'friends' hold at gunpoint.

I was just reading a fun story about an ape in a cage, hard to translate from Dutch, being made upset by a beautiful women,
all the ape could do in the end was jump against the bars of its cage.
You are building your own bars in the south for example, and metafisical speaking
everywhere else.


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Fort knox is empty


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OK I made an other big can, Brazilian beans grinded by me myself.



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For the US is was Enrico Fermi who was imported after he figured out what makes the sun shine.

Re: O.T. Moody’s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
wrote:

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A lot of history was driven by stupid wars over power and national
pride and the ambitions of a few people. And military establishments
who wanted to do their thing, fight.

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I think the USA is ahead of the curve on backing away from the
nationalism/power thing, as the West was ahead of the curve on
religious freedom. The big chip-on-shoulder power-seekers are now
China and Iran and Russia.

The USA, as a young nation of immigrants, doesn't have the
nationalistic and racial pride of many other places.

There are places in the world where people are still angry about wars
that happened a thousand years ago. The suni-shiite hatred is crazy.


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Venezuela really needs a regime change. Idiot socialists think they
can run an economy, and can't.

They should do the "Mouse that Roared" thing and declare war on the
USA.


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Isn't methane mostly methane? Do you like Putin being able to put you
in the cold and dark?


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: O.T. Moody’s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
John Larkin
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US will self destruct, why bother.

Rome was takes by the Barbarians.

Neither Nero playing the fiddle in Rome nor trump playing twitter in what's-it-tone can stop these empires falling.
:-)

  
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 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-oil-contamination-exclusive/exclusive-firms-complain-of-contaminated-crude-from-u-s-reserve-idUSKBN1H50GI

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I trust Putin more than trump.

trump will put anyone in the dark if he feels he can force a 'better deal' no matter what the contract was.
Like I said, no trade without trust.



Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On Saturday, December 15, 2018 at 7:16:09 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
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203051912.html
de-u-s-treasuries-are-riskier-than-chinese-debt
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investors. They see four major red flags in U.S. debt.
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dow-banking-poses-high-risk-chinas-financial
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d powers to look for a different exchange medium than the US dollar and ban
ks.
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er for the US, leaving war as its only option.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz

"War is the continuation of politics by other means." Money always was impo
rtant, and seems to be pretty much all-important now. Some political leader
s do seem to be very short-sighted in their calculations of financial inter
est.
  
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The USA is even more interested in money than everybody else - it's part of
 the "people who own the country ought to run the country" ethos.

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China wants reliable food supplies in a world where anthropogenic global wa
rming is making its own rather marginal food producing capacity even more m
arginal.

Iran wants security. It had one CIA-inspired coup back 1953

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

and had a lot of grief getting rid of the regime the CIA installed. What is
 has now is better than what it had, if not all tha great.

Russia is being run by a bunch of money-grubbing crooks. They aren't going  
to start a war, which would cost a lot of money, but they are stupid and gr
eedy.
  
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But individual Americans seem to get indoctrinated with the idea that the U
S constitution represents a high high point in political operating systems,
 rather than a primitive (and rather aberrant) way-station in their evoluti
on.
  
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But local power structures exploit it, and see a short term advantage - for
 them - in keeping it going.

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st (to the locals).
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Venezuela is a failed state. The people who have ended up in charge haven't
 got a clue how to run an economy, and think that calling what they are doi
ng "socialist" makes it look better. It doesn't make it look remotely socia
list, but John Larkin can't even tell the difference between socialism and  
communism, so he isn't going to notice.

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That was a comedy.

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buy Russian gas and not US inferior crap gas,  
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Methane is methane wherever it comes from. Shipping it from Russian through
 a pipeline is cheaper than liquifying it and shipping it in liquid gas tan
kers across the Atlantic.

Having Trump able to put Europe in the cold and dark would seem to be just  
a bad as giving Putin that power. Iran has lots of natural gas too.

Putin is a lot more dependent on his hydrocarbon exports than the US is, so
 he's less likely to cut them off at a whim. He's also a trifle more ration
al than Trump (which isn't saying much).

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On 14/12/18 21:16, John Larkin wrote:

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Surely you are joking?  There is nowhere in the world that has such a
high level of nationalism and nationalistic pride as the USA.  Remind us
again - what was that TV reality drop-out's slogan as you elected him to
run your country?


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A sizeable proportion of your population are still angry about the war
you fought with yourself.

(You are still right about other parts of the world bearing grudges for
ancient wars.)

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Absolutely true.  So is any hatred.


Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 14:39:36 +0100, David Brown

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make america great AGAIN.

He's right in that we have run low on self-interest. He's right about
a lot of stuff.

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Maybe 1%, probably much less now. I grew up in Louisiana and know a
little about that.

We admittedly wouldn't admit that Boston Creme Pie was a Yankee
invention. We called it "Congo pie."


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The Koran says that muslims should unite and conquer all the infidels,
and defines what "muslim" means. Clearly sunnis and shiites are both
muslims, so why do they bomb one anothers mosques?




--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 2:36:14 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
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In practice, make America grate again, and again.
  
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For a particularly bizarre interpretation of "right". He good at presenting
 himself to people who can't do critical thinking - and John Larkin certain
ly can't manage that.

It's generally accepted that being "right" involves telling the same story  
from one day to the next, and that isn't a restriction that Trump is constr
ained by.

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Religion isn't as effective in making people behave properly as it's propon
ents claim. Agnostics can behave well without the crutch of irrational beli
efs, and don't go around killing heretics. Atheists have an untestable beli
ef in the non-existence of any god, which strikes me as irrational, but the
y don't seem to get violent about it.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 07:36:06 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

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Naw... Gotta be N. Korea. The people have got to look constantly up-beat  
and proud there or get shot.



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This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via  
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other  
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Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On 17/12/2018 16:36, John Larkin wrote:
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It is about America first - pure nationalism.

I am of the opinion that this was unnecessary - before Trump took over,  
America was doing pretty well.  It had its ups and downs, and there are  
always parts of any country that are worse off, but on the whole it  
seemed to be okay.  And internationally, it recovered much of political  
respect that had been lost by that muppet Bush.  Then along came Trump,  
and the rest of the world does not know whether to laugh or to cry, to  
blame you or to sympathise with you.

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He is wrong about far, far more stuff.  And more than that, he does not  
/care/ whether he is right or wrong - he cares only for the effect it has.

You (as a country) had not run low on self-interest.  You only started  
running low when you started believing that self-obsessed git that  
/told/ you you had low self-interest.

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I got the impression that it was more than that - perhaps it is just  
that such people are louder than the normal populace.  But you would  
know better than me, so I'll take your word for it.

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Neither side in such battles think that the others are "true" Muslims.  
(Remember, of course, that this is another case where the angry,  
violent, hateful people are a very small but very loud minority.  The  
huge majority of Muslims are happy to live and let live, and want peace.)

It is the same "logic" used between different branches of Christianity.  
The difference is that in our part of the world (the "West"), we have  
mostly grown beyond that - Catholics and Protestants no longer burn each  
other at the stake.  But Christian terrorists do commit atrocities in  
some parts of the world.


Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:48:55 +0100, David Brown

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Yup, that's what we elected him for.


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What matters is results. Like peace in Korea maybe. Trump is rude and
crude, but the has common sense, namely is not paralyzed by nuance.

That's kind of refreshing.


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The money and the jobs and the power and the kids have been diffusing
out to the big cities. The richest counties in the USa surround
Washington, DC. The coastal elites and Wall Street parasites exploit
and mock the struggling farmers and truckers who keep them alive. That
has caused some discord.

Some poor farmer can be arrested because his seasonal pond overflows.
Nobody from Wells Fargo has gone to jail. People notice things like
this.





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Sure, some people will do anything to get attention.  

The South has changed a lot in the last 50 years.


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--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On 18/12/2018 21:51, John Larkin wrote:
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You think Trump has given peace in Korea?  Kim played Trump like a cheap  
fiddle.

Trump is rude and crude - you got that right.  But he is without any  
common sense, any political sense, any diplomatic, economic, business  
sense.  His background is from being surrounded by sycophants, which has  
given him an astoundingly over-inflated ego and sense of his own  
imagined genius.  He genuinely believes he shits gold, because that's  
what he has been told all his life.  A totally mindless, thoughtless and  
unwavering belief in your own godhood is clearly a help to getting  
elected - it is no help in running a country.

I just hope his minders can keep him restrained enough to avoid too much  
lasting harm (they seem to be managing so far).  When he bankrupts his  
businesses, he can always bully his way into getting more money to try  
again until one gets lucky and succeeds enough to be sold at a good  
profit - the same will not happen with America.

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Well, it is different - I'll give you that.

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Agreed.

But most of your population /are/ living in the cities and the coastal  
areas, with only a minority being farmers and truckers.

I am not going to argue that your country was perfect before Trump - far  
from it.  But it was not as bad as he has made you think.  And his  
attempts at rolling back the clock may sound good, but they are not helpful.

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I'd be happy to see a lot of the top-end capitalists, Wall Street  
parasites, etc., rounded up and locked away - or at least forced to live  
with a less obscene proportion of your country's wealth.  Unfair  
division of wealth is the key problem in your country.  But Trump and  
his policies are not doing that - he is working for the benefit of the  
absurdly rich, not for the benefit of the common people.

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That is good to hear.  I know an American who campaigned for civil  
liberties in the American South, and shot (in self defence) a KKK member  
in the arm - it turned out to be a police deputy.  But I think that was  
probably 50 years ago, to the nearest decade.  I hope they can stay in  
the past.

Unfortunately, Trump has been a great dividing influence in your country  
- "divide and conquer" may be a good strategy to get yourself elected,  
but is not good for the country.  I hope you survive him.


Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 22:41:30 +0100, David Brown

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Kim has blown up some missile facilities. Hasn't fired a nuke lately.
Love is breaking out across the DMZ. Wait a while and see how things
progress.



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He's a billionaire, and you aren't.





  His background is from being surrounded by sycophants, which has  
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Fortunately, every state gets two senators.




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I disagree. His immigration and tariff policies are good for
worker-guys. Cheap immigrant labor and cheap imports drive income
inequality.




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H and O didn't unify us by mocking deplorables and unredeemables who
cling to their guns and religion, uneducated rubes without advanced
degrees in sociology or geography or ethnic studies.

The rubes got even.

I think there is a moderating trend in the US public, specifically
more independents and a move towards civility and moderation. The New
York Times will be the last to notice.



--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 10:31:30 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
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<snip>

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Obama didn't mock anybody. Hillary Clinton was rude about the deplorables w
ho were blind to Trump's faults. She didn't have anything to say about the  
nature of their education, though you would have to have gone to Tulane or  
some place even more rural not to notice.
  
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With a lot of encouragement from the Russians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/12/16/new-report-russian-dis
information-prepared-senate-shows-operations-scale-sweep/?utm_term=.1c2f6
ce34b07

In the end it Trump made it on 77,000 votes in the swing states that turned
 out to be close enough to matter. Granting the time and effort the Russian
s put in to influencing US voters to vote for Trump - rather than anybody w
ho looked competent - it looks more as if the rubes got suckered.

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The New York Times is even less moderate than Trump, and even less civil?

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney



Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On 19/12/18 00:31, John Larkin wrote:
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Kim also has plenty of facilities that he has not dismantled, and you
can be /very/ sure he has back-up copies of all the designs.  His
strategy is to be aggressive for a while, rattling his sabres - this
lets his people do their testing and development.  Then he calms down
and acts friendly and peaceful - and people see the progress made, open
trade routes, etc.  This will go on until he feels that it is time to
flex his muscles again.  It is a repeating pattern - we have seen it
before, and I expect to see it again.

And Trump is no more than a willing pawn in Kim's game, who thoroughly
enjoyed goading Trump into making such a fool of himself with his
childish antics.

However, we can always hope that the peaceful phase will last longer
this time.

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Absolutely true.  He was born with a silver spoon, and has bullied and
harassed his way to an entire silver cutlery drawer.  I don't claim I
have much skill in politics, economics, diplomacy or business - I only
claim that he does not.

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That is something that has its good points and its bad points.  It is
always the challenge for a democracy - how do you do what is best for
the majority of the people, while also doing what is right for the
minorities?   (I am not going to make the slightest attempt to answer
that, and don't expect you to do so either.)

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I believe we agree to a certain extent about the problems, but disagree
about the solutions.

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Certainly the divisions in your country come from long before Trump - I
don't blame him for that.  I merely say that while most of your
presidents have made an attempt at being "president for the whole
country", Trump has taken the divisions as an advantage and worked hard
to make them worse.

I am also mostly at a loss for ideas of how you could improve the
situation - it is only easy to see ways to make it worse.  Perhaps
Trump's polarising will cause a rebound - people see how bad things can
get, and that spurs them to work together.  For at least some Republican
politicians it is possible to agree with Democrats on one thing - they
don't like Trump.

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Re: O.T. Moody?s Investor Service, might cut the US credit rating
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:04:59 +0100, David Brown

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He's President, and Hillary is not.




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The rebound seems to be in the other direction. Both Democrats and
Repubs, in a recent survey, want their parties to move right. I can
understand a lot of democrats being repelled by the astonishing
positions of MadMax and that Ortiz woman. I think a lot of people were
put off by the JIT attacks on Kavanaugh.

France is having fun now.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


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