Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-40527784

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Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
On 07/07/2017 08:32 AM, TTman wrote:
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In case of emergency, a 129 MWh battery should be able to keep South  
Australia running for a good extra 17 seconds!

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
On 07/07/17 23:17, bitrex wrote:
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Have you been to South Australia? (I don't mean south Australia)
There's not much there. A city of 1.3M, yes, but not 400k more in
the whole state; 640k households. That's 200WH/household. It won't
keep air conditioners running perhaps, but it'll keep the phones
and Internet working.

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
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How will that actually operate, assuming that there are no separate
grids for essential and non-essential equipment?  Will there be
remotely controlled (and fast) switches that the power company can
control to switch off air conditioners in the event of a blackout
so they can effectively control the load to be below 100 MW before
the Tesla inverter takes over?

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !

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In practice, power companies make agreements with large loads such as
metal smelters or paper machines to shread the loads if there is a
severe energy shortage.  

The BESS battery system in Alaska is capable of providing 40 MW for 15
minutes and during that time start the emergency gas turbines or
diesels.

The 100 MW for a million+ population sounds quite a bit low.


Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
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Of course.  But those are large installations and they probably have
a lot more controllability.  Over here, the kWh price such a company
pays is proportional to the load they present during certain intervals
which are indicated by the power company as a high-load interval.  So
the companies that try to optimize on their electricity bill already
have the control equipment in place to reduce their load in these
intervals.

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That is why I wonder how it is done in this scenario.
I can understand that high loads are turned off, but how do you
do that in a city grid and will it be quick enough to switch over
to the backup without having an interruption anyway?

In the past, we were introduced to "smart meters" that would provide
metering with remote readout but also would enable remote switching by
the power company "to operate the grid in a more efficient way during
power shortages".
As this was widely frowned upon, with the fear of creating a kind of
classful grid where the consumers would have less reliable service
than some others, it was finally removed from the spec and the
"smart meters" that are now being installed do not have this capability
anymore.  I think it was limited to a single circuit per meter anyway.

So, when you want to use this kind of backup and you do not want to
turn off entire neighborhoods, you probably have to install some kind
of remotely controlled switches on high-power but not-so-essential
equipment like air conditioners and electric heaters, and then you
have to be able to turn them off in 10ms or so, with the guarantee
that the remaining load will be below the 100 MW that Tesla is able
to supply.

I still wonder how they are going to pull this off.

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
On 07/08/2017 11:32 AM, snipped-for-privacy@downunder.com wrote:
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How long can the energy just stored in the EM fields in the grid hold  
up? Long enough to switch in the batteries in AK apparently.

When the power fails it seems almost instant from my perception, but  
it's probably not actually instant.

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
On Sat, 8 Jul 2017 15:13:34 -0400, bitrex

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About 5 microseconds per mile.


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lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
snipped-for-privacy@downunder.com wrote on 7/8/2017 11:32 AM:
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I received an email yesterday asking me to reduce my electric use at peak  
time between 3 and 6 PM.  I lowered my AC temperature earlier and turned it  
off at 3 PM.  Unfortunately I had been out paddling and was wearing damp  
clothes on return so I forgot to turn it back on until the inside temp got  

the temp down a couple of degrees.

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Rick C

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !

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Programmable thermostat.

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !

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stick a small heater (maybe 0.25W) under/inside the thermostant and switch it
using a timer switch.

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Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
Jasen Betts wrote on 7/18/2017 2:57 AM:
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Or I can use the programming feature of the thermostat...

I remember the early days of setback thermostats.  The low cost ones were  
exactly that, a small heater with a timer that you mounted under the  
thermostat.

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Rick C

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !

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The X10 programmable thermostats were exactly that.

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
On 08/07/17 20:44, Rob wrote:
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Actually, remote control (by grid signalling) new a/c units are
pretty commonplace here. The power company can disable a/c for
30 minutes at a time, rolling suburb by suburb to reduce the load
while keeping power on. I don't know more technical details though.

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
wrote:

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Is that the story that was in silicon chip magazine for april 1? As far as  
that battery is concerned it is only to make up temporary shortfalls while  
gas generators are fired up. It is big enough for that.
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Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
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It was my impression that the one and sole purpose of this system was
to prevent "rolling blackouts" in the case of a power shortage or outage.

So, covering the capacity limit with rolling blackouts does not appear
to be an option.  It has to be more clever than that.

A detailed study of the power requirements of the area would have to
be made, but covering a 640k-household area with a 100 MW power backup
is going to be tricky at best, no matter how many non-essential customers
you are able to cut off (assuming those do not include the households).

As so often in energy technology, the claims made on the evening news
and in the daily papers rarely withstand back-of-the-envelope analysis.

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
Clifford Heath wrote on 7/8/2017 11:17 PM:
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A friend had a thermostat that the power company could control.  But if you  
give it a bit of thought you will realize either your A/C or heat won't be  
able to maintain temperature or this is pointless.

Thermostats cycle the system on and off to achieve a duty cycle that  
maintains a given temperature in the home.  Statistically a given  
neighborhood will have some units on and some off resulting in a fairly  
constant average load.  Switching off a neighborhood for say 15 minutes will  
result in many more units turning on when the system restores operation  
resulting in the *same* average load.  The only thing that changes is that  
every A/C in the neighbor hood will be switching on at the same time.

Switching off a neighborhood for much longer than 15 minutes will result in  
all the homes having temperatures outside of the set point range.  In other  
words, users will be getting hot (or cold depending on season).

How is that any different than just setting the thermostats back?

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Rick C

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
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I think the idea is that most people would not mind if the temperature
is a bit above/below the setting when in exchange they keep getting power
for other appliances and lighting.  The alternative would be a complete
blackout for part of the users.

Of course only when it happens occasionally and not too long at a time.

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
Rob wrote on 7/13/2017 12:45 PM:
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A couple days ago the electric company sent an email asking us to cut back  
our electric usage between 3 and 6.  I cut off my A/C after cranking the  

those three hours, but it was a bit cloudy today even if the outside temp  

didn't mind it so I programmed my thermostat to drop the temp around noon  
and cut it off between 3 and 6 every day.  We'll see how that works out for  
me.  If it gets much above 80 in the house I won't like it, but 80 is ok.  I  
should rig up a recorder.



a big help in the summer to moderate temperatures during the peak power  
usage time.

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Rick C

Re: Nice TESLA battery array- 100 M.W. !
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 09:17:37 -0400, bitrex

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Since the inverter output power is only 100 MW, so the 129 MWh
battery should last more than an hour. This is more than enough to
start any emergency diesel generators or gas turbines, which take 5 to
15 minutes to start and synchronize with the net.
  

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