LiIon Battery Question

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LiIon Battery Question...

Is there a voltage below which the battery is considered toast, or is
a battery that is totally discharged rechargeable?
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
Den onsdag den 7. december 2016 kl. 18.55.42 UTC+1 skrev Jim Thompson:
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http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/low_voltage_cut_off

Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 10:07:55 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen

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Thanks, Lasse!  _Precisely_ the info I was seeking!

(I'm writing a Spice model for Microchip MCP73831/2 and the datasheet
is just a wee-bit vague ;-)
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 11:18:32 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

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Let it discharge too low and on charge it may burst into flame.

Charge it too high and it may burst into flame.

Not always -- but enough that anyone who flies electric RC has an  
acquaintance who has, or has nearly, burnt their shop down.

--  

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 1:33:19 PM UTC-5, Tim Wescott wrote:
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I'm getting a more burly Lipo charger for my son.  
Should we set up some kind of flame proof table to charge on?  

George H.  
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 11:25:27 -0800 (PST), George Herold

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[snip]
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After the recent Samsung episode I leave no LiIon battery charging
unattended.  But a flame-proof table/surround might be a good idea.
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: LiIon Battery Question

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A flame proof charging container for Li battery powered devices might make a  
good product.





Re: LiIon Battery Question
Den onsdag den 7. december 2016 kl. 20.25.31 UTC+1 skrev George Herold:
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you can get a fancy pouch for charging https://hobbyking.com/en_us/lithium-polymer-charge-pack-25x33cm-jumbo-sack.html

I've seen some put batteries in an old cooking pot while charging


Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 12:23:10 -0800, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

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sack.html

Pouch, cooking pot, metal ammo can, corral of bricks, charge on the patio  
(if you live in temperate climes), etc.  I charge them in an ammo can  
(and haven't had one go poof -- but one of my RC club members had one  
catch fire in his basement, and it burnt through a piece of scrap carpet  
before he could get it out the door).

A friend of mine who flies in competition and who is REALLY detail  
oriented says that just charging them warm and letting them cool is a Bad  
Thing, because the capacity drops with temperature, turning a fully  
charged battery into an overcharged battery.

If you didn't get him a balancing charger, get him a balancer.

--  

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 3:54:23 PM UTC-5, Tim Wescott wrote:
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Ahh I've got these big metal tins I've been wondering what to do with.  
Now I know.  

George H.  
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Hmm I don't know.. he picked out this one.  
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QVK1B6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

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Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 13:18:18 -0800, George Herold wrote:

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jumbo-
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ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
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It's a balancing charger.  Fancy.

--  

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 4:59:26 PM UTC-5, Tim Wescott wrote:
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RC stuff is fun, he's into quad copters w/  
first person view... (CCD camera on the copter
feeding video back.)  He did ask me to help him  
build a 3-terminal voltage regulator.  But mostly  
he's building his own, from watching videos.
He has asked me about PID control loops. :^)  

George H.  

  
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 16:42:45 -0800, George Herold wrote:

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low_voltage_cut_off
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Have him watch my videos, and then tell me what he thinks!

AFAIK, the state of the art in hobby quad-copter PID tuning is to use a  
seat of the pants method similar to what I describe in my video.  If I'm  
correct, this leaves out a lot of nonlinear effects (like actuator  
saturation) that means you're not getting the most out of the thing in  
sudden maneuvers.

So far I haven't dug deep into that particular mine of knowledge.

--  

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 17:42:26 -0800 (PST), George Herold

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Send it back.  You have plenty of time until Christmas:
<http://www.xmasclock.com

Drivel:  I've been learning to fly my quadcopter (Walkera QR X350
clone) indoors.  It's much more difficult indoors than outdoors.  So
far, nothing broken, and getting better with practice.  Blade guards
and adjustable control sensitivity are a big help.  There is nothing
like lying in bed while flying a drone around the house:
<
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drones/Rotor%20Concepts%20Discovery.jpg

Hint:  I'm not married.
--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 10:46:33 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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"the boy" has a little copter he flies around the house.  
About the size of a deck of cards.  
(smaller is easier.)

George H.  

Re: LiIon Battery Question
wrote:

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Not married? I wouldn't have guessed

Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Fri, 09 Dec 2016 19:05:48 -0700, Jim Thompson

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Congrats and quite impressive.  The average among my aquaintences is
about the same as the age of their kids when they are evicted.

Ask you wife what she might do if you were in the habit of:
1.  Flying a 2ft dia quadcopter in the bedroom.
2.  Chemistry experiments in the kitchen.
3.  Storing chemicals in the refrigerator and pantry.
4.  Converting the barbeque into an aluminum and brass foundry.
5.  Wires, cables, and antennas everywhere.
6.  Projection TV on the ceiling.
7.  Noisy bicycle trainer in the living room while watching TV.
8.  Tree house meditation room (shared with the neighbors kids).
9.  Anywhere between one and three dead cars in front of the house.
10. Scorch marks on tables from fast battery charging experiments.
etc...
I suspect the aformentioned would not be on her list of acceptable
practices consistent with staying married 57 years.  

Some nerds (such as me) are too weird or wild to be successfully
domesticated.

--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
wrote:

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I have no interest in doing that

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I etch PCB's in her oven

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Not in the pantry but in a storage closet alongside her appliances,
crock pots, electric skillets, etc

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No


No antennas


Sounds interesting >:-}

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Nope


No tree suitably big enough here in the desert, but sounds like fun.

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I was recently accused of that by the HOA because I only drive the
pick-em-up truck every few weeks.  I'm now considering running for the
HOA board >:-}

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In the past.

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You just need to find someone tolerant.  I've worked at home since
1973... apparently some women can't even cope with that.
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: LiIon Battery Question
wrote:

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Have a look for burn proof charging bags www.dx.com or banggood.com will  
get you there

Re: LiIon Battery Question
On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 11:18:32 -0700, Jim Thompson

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Be aware that - despite what that article infers - NOT_ALL Li-xx
batteries incorporate protection modules.  In many appliances, the
protection circuitry is built into the charge controller which is part
of the appliance.  That keeps the battery (well, cell really) simpler
aka cheaper.

In a typical laptop battery (3-series N-parallel 18650) the *cells*
contain no protection as it is incorporated into the pack electronics.

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