Jellybean electrolytic capacitors

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 What do you think is a good general-purpose low-cost
 versatile jellybean aluminum electrolytic capacitor line?
 I'm looking for a manufacturer and specific product line.
 When I say versatile, I mean available in a wide range of
 part values and operating voltages, and physical sizes.

Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 05:27:40 -0800 (PST), Winfield

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Why not just buy whatever's in Mouser or Digikey? They all seem pretty
much the same, if you don't need exotica like special ESR or
something.

John





Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors

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Because its for a table in the new edition?

--

John Devereux

Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
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 Close - it's for a scatterplot of esr vs size for
 our new Chapter 1X capacitor-properties discussion.
 I've measured a mass of parts from our stock drawers
 plus some we've ordered for the purpose, and it's
 quite interesting to see what an extreme variation
 of performance can be seen.

 I'd like to order a wide selection from one or two
 lines and be able to specifically mark them on the
 plot - obviously it'd be most useful if they're
 good parts to choose.  For example, I used to get
 lots of Panasonic HFS series parts - reasonably-low
 esr, not too expensive, with a wide range of values
 and voltages available, but, it's been discontinued.
 I haven't yet chosen a replacement for our stocks.

Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 07:34:00 -0800 (PST), Winfield Hill

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Oh. How about NEC or Nichicon? They probably make their own stuff.

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I have a scatterplot of power transformer weight vs power, if
anybody's interested.

John


Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
On Nov 21, 2:11 pm, John Larkin
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 Yes, I'm interested!

Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
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But please, please teach the readers _not_ to design the transformer so
it'll work nicely at 120V, saturate at 130V and then go up in smoke at
132V. I've been through several reviews where in the end it was "oh, but
at this point that's all the space we've got".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:55:25 GMT, Joerg

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Buy better lams.

We had one transformer, not too big, 10 pounds maybe, that ran warm
and, if you teased the power switch, would make the wiring in the
walls thump audibly at turnon. We measured close to 1000 amps peak
current. It would also fry varnish at 130 volts.

Here's the transformer plot for Win...

http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xfmrscatterbq5.jpg

This graph was really hard to shoot... terrible Moire' effects.

John


Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors

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  Thanks, JL, that goes up on my wall. Got the equations that fits the
graph?
Cheers,
 Harry



Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors

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C'mon, that's straight lines on a log-log plot. The equations can be left as
an exercise to the reader.

robert

Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors

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 Gotcha, Y= mX+b
 Thanks,
 Harry



Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
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 We're not going to teach ac-power-line design, excepting
 SMPS types.  But we may teach signal-transformer design,
 including high-frequency power stuff.

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 What're lams, laminations?  You mean buy transformers?

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 John, thanks very much, that's a spectacular graph,
 with a 1000:1 VA range and an over 200:1 weight range.
 What kind of transformers (specific types?) did you
 measure for the data points?  Do you still have the
 raw data?  We're using Igor for our graph plotting.

Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:51:29 -0800 (PST), Winfield

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Yeah, laminations. Transformer companies tend to use really cheap
silicon steel and just skim the edge of saturation. If you get in
trouble on saturation, they can usually go to some better material and
get decent margins in the same physical size.

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I did a few custom transformers that we use, and looked up some others
in catalogs, just to get an idea of the slopes.

I still like to use graph paper. You just whack the little dots
down... no typing numbers. There is no raw data, you just plot it.

John


Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
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Hey, can you guys include a small picture of a tantalum turning into a
rocket? With that orange-greenish streak spewing out the bottom and
maybe an impressive cloud?


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--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
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 Can you provide us with a nice photo?

Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
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I almost knew you'd ask but, unfortunately not. It always happened out
of the blue. Once the fire alarm even started blaring.

This one has the aftermath, last picture:

http://www.empf.org/empfasis/mar05/catafailure305.htm

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
Get the Mythbusters to blow up some electronics.  It's a pretty sure thing
to make tants go off, so it'd be a cinch to catch it on their highspeed.
Now you just need a mythscuse to bring it up...hmm...

Tim

--
Deep Fryer: A very philosophical monk.
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

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Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
Hi,

Panasonic NHG is great, and M series seem common.

When it comes to availability, whatever is at Digikey and Mouser or
the like is about it.

It would be interesting to see the results of at least one bad
audiophile cap, which is also available at digikey and called the
silmic II.

I hope you'll do a similar chart on low ESR electrolytics.

Looking forward to the next edition.

Cheers
Chris



Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:10:20 -0800 (PST), Winfield Hill

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See:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/Blown Power Supply.jpg>
It's not a flamed out tantalum, but an example of what happens when a
cheapo ATX power supply goes over-voltage.  The paper mess was from
two electrolytic capacitors.  The charred PBC near the purple
electrolytic is probably what inspired the over-voltage. Incidentally,
literally every board and drive in the computer was also blown.

Incidentally, speaking of tantalums, have you run into any with sky
high ESR?  I have.  See the description next to the photo of the two
tantalum caps at:
<http://ludens.cl/Electron/esr/esr.html

My favorite capacitor experiment was (someone) dropping a metal bar
across the terminals of an oil drum capacitor.  I forgot the
capacitance, but the voltage rating was at least 10Kv.  A bank of
these were used to vaporize a wire to fire off a big Hi-V switch.  It
took 1 or 2 days to charge the oil drum capacitor, and a few
milliseconds to temporarily wreck my hearing, spray molten aluminum
slag everywhere, and panic everyone in the building.  Sorry, no photos
of the devastation.

There are about 30 assorted videos on YouTube under "exploding
capacitor" and "capacitor bomb".
<


http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=exploding+capacitor

All are electrolytics.  No tantalums.  Well, time to make an exploding
tantalum video.

This has nothing to do with the discussion, but is kinda interesting.
Exploding a potato with a defibrillator cazapitor:
<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egOda1dKNKU

Same thing with apples:
<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWf-V2-kr9Q






--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558             snipped-for-privacy@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
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Re: Jellybean electrolytic capacitors
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:45:45 -0800, Joerg

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http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bangvf0.jpg



John



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