Japan Hit With One-Two Punch

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First a record powerful typhoon and now a powerful earthquake (6.7) on Hokk
aido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emergency generators
 but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always a risky propos
ition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of abrupt warming.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20180906_15/




Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 17:51:55 -0700 (PDT),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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Except that it's not, fool.

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Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 11:28:52 AM UTC+10, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrot
e:
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okkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emergency generat
ors but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always a risky pro
position. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of abrupt warmi
ng.
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Melt enough ice that an ice sheet slides off into the ocean, and the rocks  
that were being pressed down by the ice sheet rebound.

It happened at the end of the last ice age, and the rebound hasn't stopped  
yet.

Japan is rather more geologically unstable than most places - think "ring o
f fire" and even changes in atmospheric pressure or tidal forces can trigge
r an earthquake.

The fool here is krw, not that anybody who post here regularly needs to be  
told that.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 10:53:14 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wro
te:
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ote:
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 Hokkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emergency gener
ators but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always a risky p
roposition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of abrupt war
ming.
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s that were being pressed down by the ice sheet rebound.
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d yet.
 of fire" and even changes in atmospheric pressure or tidal forces can trig
ger an earthquake.
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e told that.
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It works the other way around too, with the extra loading due to sea level  
rise triggering long dormant seismic activity: Melting ice and sea-level ri
se also mean that previously exposed continental margins become inundated w
ith water. At the end of the last ice age, the extra load was more than eno
ugh to reactivate faults and trigger earthquakes around the rims of all the
 major ocean basins, some of which are thought to have set off giant landsl
ides on the sea floor.
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/4388

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 07:50:19 -0700 (PDT),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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Great imagination but I'll let you die first.  Soon please.

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 1:03:00 AM UTC+10, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote:
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wrote:
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 wrote:
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 on Hokkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emergency ge
nerators but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always a risk
y proposition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of abrupt  
warming.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ocks that were being pressed down by the ice sheet rebound.
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pped yet.
ing of fire" and even changes in atmospheric pressure or tidal forces can t
rigger an earthquake.
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o be told that.
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el rise triggering long dormant seismic activity: Melting ice and sea-level
 rise also mean that previously exposed continental margins become inundate
d with water. At the end of the last ice age, the extra load was more than  
enough to reactivate faults and trigger earthquakes around the rims of all  
the major ocean basins, some of which are thought to have set off giant lan
dslides on the sea floor.
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Anything that krw doesn't happen to know gets written off as being "imagine
d".

Since krw is remarkably ill-informed, this happens quite a lot.

One of these days he's going to confidently step onto a floor that doesn't  
happen to be there any more, which may have implications for his health. Fr
ed Bloggs is clearly going to be more cautious.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 07:42:51 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote:

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Someone is certainly making money on global warming.  That may not
have been the intention, but it certainly hasn't stopped anyone from
benefiting from the result.

"U.S. Government Funding of Climate Change"
<https://www.climatedollars.org/full-study/us-govt-funding-of-climate-change/
The 5 min video is a good summary of the situation.

--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 2:10:07 AM UTC+10, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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nge/>
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https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Capital_Research_Center

The five minute video is going to be denialist propaganda, pitched at peopl
e as gullible as John Larkin. Did you actually watch it?

"CRC has received large donations from pro-fossil fuel groups like Exxon an
d the Koch Family Foundations through its Claude R. Lambe Charitable Founda
tion.[8] In November 2010, CRC published a report criticizing the Sierra Cl
ub for its work in transitioning the US away from coal plants, portraying i
t as an attack on "American prosperity."

It's one of the longer established Merchants of Doubt, and got money from t
he tobacco industry back when they were trying to deny that smoking damaged
 people's health.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:38:21 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote:

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Of course I watched it, which is why I recommended it as a good
summary of the situation.

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Is there some reason why I'm expected to discuss the background and
funding of the organization behind the web page and video, rather than
discussing Federal funding for global warming research?  One might
think that your comments are a diversion.  After all, it was you who
claimed  
  "Anthropogenic global warming was discovered, not 'thought up'  
  and it certainly wasn't invented to make anybody more money."
Well, the URL I mentioned seemed to indicate that a rather substantial
amount of government money is being spent on global warming, which
suggests that some individuals, organizations, or companies are making
money from this funding.

Perhaps this snippet from the GAO might help swing you back on topic:
<https://www.gao.gov/key_issues/climate_change_funding_management/issue_summary
  "Federal funding for climate change research, technology,
  international assistance, and adaptation has increased from  
  $2.4 billion in 1993 to $11.6 billion in 2014, with an  
  additional $26.1 billion for climate change programs and  
  activities provided by the American Recovery and Reinvestment  
  Act in 2009."
That's a rather substantial pile of my tax money spent on global
warming.  One might suspect that such a large sum could not be
budgeted without being 'thought up' and that someone must be enjoying
the proceeds from billions of dollars fighting global warming.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 1:31:56 PM UTC+10, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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:
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change/>
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y."
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The web-page was transparent fossil carbon industry propaganda. It's openin
g paragraph makes this obvious.

"As the nearby ?Short History of Global Warming Fears? expl
ains, the idea that mankind?s emissions of carbon dioxide will lead
 to catastrophic global warming was popularized in 1979 through the ?
?Charney Report. Since then, scientists have failed to find much physical
 evidence to support the report?s assumptions."

In fact, since 1979 the scientists have found an enormous pile of evidence  
to support the proposition that anthropogenic global warming is real, and l
ikely to lead to inconvenient and expensive changes in the environment.

At that point we didn't have any ice core data from Greenland - which took  
us back about 130,000 years, right through the most recent ice age - let al
one the Antarctic ice core data which eventually took us back some 800,000  
years.

Nobody outside of the denialist industry has ever talked about "catastrophi
c" global warming. It's effects come on too slowly to qualify as a "catastr
ophic".

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u who

People make money from all sorts of situations. The fact that people are cu
rrently exploiting the reality of anthropogenic global warming to make mone
y out of it isn't any kind of evidence that the phenomenon was "invented" a
s a money-making device.

The American Institute of Physics has a web-page on the history of the disc
overy of global warming which makes nonsense of that particular conspiracy  
theory.

https://history.aip.org/climate/index.htm

It starts with Svante Arrhenius's 1896 paper ... which would make it a very
 deep-rooted conspiracy.

I'm well aware of the US ethanol-from-corn climate change boon-doggle, but  
pork barrels go back a long way in US government spending.  

It's just more of the US enthusiasm for diverting tax-payer money into the  
pockets of the rich and well-connected. Global warming isn't the issue here
 - in this context it's just one more excuse.  
  
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ummary>
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The fact that a lot of money is being spent isn't persuasive evidence that  
it is being misspent, and even poorer evidence that what it is being spent  
on is something that was "invented" to justify that spending.

Look at the physics sometime. Pushing up the atmospheric CO2 level from 270
ppm (which is roughly where it had been since the end of that last ice age)
 to it's current 405ppm is pushing up the surface temperature of the earth.

The atmospheric CO2 level is now rising at about 2 ppm per year. It was goi
ng up at about 0.6ppm per year in the 1960's when we first started monitori
ng it (from 1958). This is about a factor of ten faster than the nearest hi
storical parallel (which happened some 55.5 million years ago).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum

The anthropogenic global warming signal started sticking out above the rand
om noise (largely due to ocean currents moving around) in the late 1980's a
nd sensible people have been taking it seriously ever since.

Equally sensible (but unfortunately greedy) fossil carbon extraction busine
sses having been spending money on creating doubt about the  facts for almo
st as long.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt

You were suckered by one of the longer established merchants of doubt.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 9:10:07 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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No, just making money on hard work, of the observe-study-report
kind, and such observation, study, and reporting was a fact of
life before the current era.  

We call ourselves 'homo sapiens' because we do stuff like that.
Other social species, like wolves, don't do stuff like that;
in the US, we call wolves 'endangered species'.

The clickbait 'funding of global warming' article is purported
to show that all weather and climate monitoring is somehow
enriching 'someone'.   It's not clear how a weather monitor
network can be called a cost of global warming, though
it certainly is worthwhile.   And it ought to be no surprise
that personnel and equipment for any worthwile enterprise
are an expense.    

If you ignore the flawed reasoning, "the expense" imight be as great as
three cents per day per capita.   Heck, that's a lot less impressive
than the last bump in my sewage bill.

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 7:51:59 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.c
om wrote:
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kkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emergency generato
rs but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always a risky prop
osition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of abrupt warmin
g.
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I don't know that one earthquake constitutes a trend.  There were earthquak
es before and there will continue to be earthquakes.  There is no evidence  
this has anything to do with global warming.  Or do you have other informat
ion to support that idea?  

Rick C.

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 11:11:15 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com  
wrote:
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.com wrote:
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Hokkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emergency genera
tors but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always a risky pr
oposition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of abrupt warm
ing.
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akes before and there will continue to be earthquakes.  There is no evidenc
e this has anything to do with global warming.  Or do you have other inform
ation to support that idea?  
Quoted text here. Click to load it

There is evidence that it has to do with sea level rise, which doesn't have
 to be massive in order to trigger seismic events. http://www.worldwatch.or
g/node/4388

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Fri, 7 Sep 2018 11:30:45 -0700 (PDT),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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Is Manhattan under water yet?

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 12:43:56 PM UTC+10, snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrot
e:
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om wrote:
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ail.com wrote:
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on Hokkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emergency gen
erators but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always a risky
 proposition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of abrupt w
arming.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
hquakes before and there will continue to be earthquakes.  There is no evid
ence this has anything to do with global warming.  Or do you have other inf
ormation to support that idea?  
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ave to be massive in order to trigger seismic events. http://www.worldwatch
.org/node/4388
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Manhattan has quite a lot of elevation. Submerging all of it would take mor
e sea level rise than is likely.

When the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets slide off into the ocean t
hey will deliver some 10 metres of sea level rise, which would be quote eno
ugh to submerge an appreciable proportion of Manhattan.

We don't know when it's going to happen, because the structural changes tha
t would trigger the slide are buried under a couple of miles of ice, but it
 will happen quite fast when it does happen (based on the sea levels rises  
that happened at the end of the last ice age).

Something to look forward to - unless you are krw, who imagines that the wo
rld is as rigidly fixed as his ideas about it.

--  
Bill Sloman. Sydney

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
:
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ote:
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.com wrote:
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gmail.com wrote:
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) on Hokkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emergency g
enerators but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always a ris
ky proposition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of abrupt
 warming.
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rthquakes before and there will continue to be earthquakes.  There is no ev
idence this has anything to do with global warming.  Or do you have other i
nformation to support that idea?  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 have to be massive in order to trigger seismic events. http://www.worldwat
ch.org/node/4388
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ore sea level rise than is likely.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 they will deliver some 10 metres of sea level rise, which would be quote e
nough to submerge an appreciable proportion of Manhattan.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
hat would trigger the slide are buried under a couple of miles of ice, but  
it will happen quite fast when it does happen (based on the sea levels rise
s that happened at the end of the last ice age).
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world is as rigidly fixed as his ideas about it.
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154 earthquakes in the past 24 hours
1,020 earthquakes in the past 7 days
4,759 earthquakes in the past 30 days
83,272 earthquakes in the past 365 days

See for graphics on just how frequent these are:
https://www.earthquaketrack.com/recent and
https://www.earthquaketrack.com/about

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 11:34:42 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.c
om wrote:
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te:
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wrote:
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il.com wrote:
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.@gmail.com wrote:
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.7) on Hokkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emergency
 generators but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always a r
isky proposition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of abru
pt warming.
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earthquakes before and there will continue to be earthquakes.  There is no  
evidence this has anything to do with global warming.  Or do you have other
 information to support that idea?  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
't have to be massive in order to trigger seismic events. http://www.worldw
atch.org/node/4388
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 more sea level rise than is likely.
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an they will deliver some 10 metres of sea level rise, which would be quote
 enough to submerge an appreciable proportion of Manhattan.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 that would trigger the slide are buried under a couple of miles of ice, bu
t it will happen quite fast when it does happen (based on the sea levels ri
ses that happened at the end of the last ice age).
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e world is as rigidly fixed as his ideas about it.
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154 * 7 = 1,078 which is about the same as  

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1,020 * 4.29 = 4,371 which is less than

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12 * 4,759 = 57,108 which is less than

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According to your numbers, the rate of earthquakes is falling, not rising.
  

Rick C.  

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 12:06:00 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.co
m wrote:
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.com wrote:
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rote:
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m wrote:
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mail.com wrote:
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...@gmail.com wrote:
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(6.7) on Hokkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emergen
cy generators but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always a
 risky proposition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of ab
rupt warming.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
e earthquakes before and there will continue to be earthquakes.  There is n
o evidence this has anything to do with global warming.  Or do you have oth
er information to support that idea?  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
sn't have to be massive in order to trigger seismic events. http://www.worl
dwatch.org/node/4388
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ke more sea level rise than is likely.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
cean they will deliver some 10 metres of sea level rise, which would be quo
te enough to submerge an appreciable proportion of Manhattan.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
es that would trigger the slide are buried under a couple of miles of ice,  
but it will happen quite fast when it does happen (based on the sea levels  
rises that happened at the end of the last ice age).
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the world is as rigidly fixed as his ideas about it.
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.  
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Come back when you figure out how to intelligently do computations. You're  
obviously overlooking the possibility of data fluctuation so that a most re
cent 7-day total does not apply all 7-day intervals over a larger time inte
rval, etc.

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 1:26:54 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.co
m wrote:
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com wrote:
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il.com wrote:
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 wrote:
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com wrote:
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@gmail.com wrote:
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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e (6.7) on Hokkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using emerg
ency generators but no irregularities have been reported. And that's always
 a risky proposition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence of  
abrupt warming.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ere earthquakes before and there will continue to be earthquakes.  There is
 no evidence this has anything to do with global warming.  Or do you have o
ther information to support that idea?  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
oesn't have to be massive in order to trigger seismic events. http://www.wo
rldwatch.org/node/4388
Quoted text here. Click to load it
take more sea level rise than is likely.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 ocean they will deliver some 10 metres of sea level rise, which would be q
uote enough to submerge an appreciable proportion of Manhattan.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
nges that would trigger the slide are buried under a couple of miles of ice
, but it will happen quite fast when it does happen (based on the sea level
s rises that happened at the end of the last ice age).
Quoted text here. Click to load it
t the world is as rigidly fixed as his ideas about it.
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ng.  
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e obviously overlooking the possibility of data fluctuation so that a most  
recent 7-day total does not apply all 7-day intervals over a larger time in
terval, etc.

I didn't apply the 7 day interval to all intervals.  I compared each interv
al to the next larger one.  I think that constitutes a downward trend.  

Hey, it's YOUR data.  

Rick C.

Re: Japan Hit With One-Two Punch
On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 2:09:53 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com
 wrote:
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com wrote:
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l.com wrote:
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mail.com wrote:
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rg wrote:
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l.com wrote:
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..@gmail.com wrote:
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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ake (6.7) on Hokkaido. The island's Tomari nuclear power plant is using eme
rgency generators but no irregularities have been reported. And that's alwa
ys a risky proposition. Geological instability is a predicted consequence o
f abrupt warming.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 were earthquakes before and there will continue to be earthquakes.  There  
is no evidence this has anything to do with global warming.  Or do you have
 other information to support that idea?  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 doesn't have to be massive in order to trigger seismic events. http://www.
worldwatch.org/node/4388
Quoted text here. Click to load it
d take more sea level rise than is likely.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
he ocean they will deliver some 10 metres of sea level rise, which would be
 quote enough to submerge an appreciable proportion of Manhattan.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
hanges that would trigger the slide are buried under a couple of miles of i
ce, but it will happen quite fast when it does happen (based on the sea lev
els rises that happened at the end of the last ice age).
Quoted text here. Click to load it
hat the world is as rigidly fixed as his ideas about it.
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sing.  
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're obviously overlooking the possibility of data fluctuation so that a mos
t recent 7-day total does not apply all 7-day intervals over a larger time  
interval, etc.
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rval to the next larger one.  I think that constitutes a downward trend.  
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It's unfiltered incident date, it does not represent the statistics of inci
dence, therefore you cannot just scale it from one time interval to the nex
t and expect it to be consistent.

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