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Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
On Thu, 25 Aug 2016 07:19:43 -0700, gtomkx wrote:

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Proper operation of the Hendershot generator is achieved when you extract  
money from some fool for much less effort than you could earn it  
honestly, and you do not subsequently end up either in jail or the  
hospital.

So the thing for you to do is either to start selling plans yourself, or  
to take what you have, put it into a case that looks high-tech and pro,  
and sell it to someone who doesn't know where you live.

--  
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
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Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
I got a word of advice here. DO NOT SEARCH GOOGLE GROUPS. Plus this is a Us
enet group not a Google group. Also, look at the date of the post to which  
you want to respond.  

When you dredge up these ancient threads that deserved to die you might get
 ignored, or you might get legitimate users of  Google groups who get to Us
enet that way (one of the few free ways to do it now) you might get more pe
ople to just ignore all Google users.  

Another thing, nobody with any sense for science falls for this shit. You a
re obviously in the US. I would bet even the schools in Bangladesh teach th
at you cannot get something for nothing.  

There is one machine out there that can supply your house with electricity  
for about seven years. It is not perpetual motion but it works. It "uses" m
agnetism, and I mean it uses it up. It's operation depletes the magnetic fi
eld of damnear supermagnets.  

The cost - about a million dollars. Now take your electric bill and divide  
$1,000,000 by 84 months and see if you want one.  

Now whether Tesla was right or not is another story, but that is such a lar
ge scale is is almost impractical especially since there is no way to meter
 it. So nobody would do it. And really, if everyone pays the same, is it fa
ir to you using a PC, coffemaker and TV set to pay the same as an aluminum  
casting plant ? Or a steel mill ? That's why even if it would work, it will
 never happen.  

Please look at the date. It is in the upper right hand corer of every post.
 If it is a year old or more, forget about it. Shit like this almost makes  
me want to make Usenet secret.

Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
responding to
http://www.electrondepot.com/electrodesign/is-the-hendershot-generator-ad-a-scam-671452-.htm
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Hello Syd,
I would like to buy the plans/schematics that you have.
You can contact me at snipped-for-privacy@aol.com
How much do you charge for the plans?
How can you send me the plans?
How do you want to be paid?
Tom Kenefick 314-402-1820:
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--


Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
On Tuesday, 30 August 2016 19:37:07 UTC+1, Tom Kenefick  wrote:
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the mugs line up


NT

Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
On 31/08/2016 9:46 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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Here, I'll post it for free: http://www.xkcd.com/730/

--
Cheers,
Chris


Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
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As much fun as this could be I can't watch. It does not work.  

There is ONE device that I know of and that is only because I know people w
ho worked on it that can appear to give free energy. But it uses magnets an
d the way it does it it saps their magnetic properties. It can supply your  
house with power for approximately seven years and then it is spent. It is  
no more perpetual motion or magic than a dry cell battery.  

I can probably get you one. you can't build it as it costs a shit ton of mo
ney in machining and some special materials that are not cheap. Before plac
ing your order though take your electric bill for seven years and add it up
 and see if it adds up to about a million dollars. And if it does, the devi
ce does not have the capacity to supply that much so you need a bigger one  
which will cost even more.  

There is no free lunch. First law of thermodynamics, and science in general
. You can't even measure something without affecting it and that includes t
he entire universe. Even if you look at a star with a telescope you are aff
ecting its radiation to the Earth. But that effect being so infinitesimal t
hat it is neglibible does not mean it does not exist.  

Even an electrometer or elecrostatic voltmeter affects what is being measur
ed.  

If you want perpetual energy look into geothermal or solar. It will last lo
nger than you. Those are your choices. Either that or find a way to harness
 the tides. Some thought has gone into that, it would require some sort of  
floating weight that would move up and down with the tides. This would be v
ery slow and have to geared up immensely to be of any use. Or, if there is  
a way to store it but stored water weight really doesn't work all that well
, it has been tried. It works but not well enough to replace what we're doi
ng now.  

Wind and solar work but they are intermittent, you cannot count on it. ther
efore you use batteries which are an environmental nightmare.  

There just ain't something for nothing. That Hendershot guy missed class on
 the wrong days, probably out getting high. Not that I have anything agains
t that, but I am, and so are others, absolutely sure that could not demonst
rate it actually working. The device I mentioned, I grilled the guy for day
s upon days before I even started research on how it could possibly work. W
e actually got into a couple of loud arguments about it. I asked hundreds o
f questions. But in the end I figured out how it works and it is not magic  
or anything "free". But I do know exactly why they never bothered to patent
 it. Simply no reason to.  

To sum it up, there is no free lunch Grandma.

Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
On Friday, 2 September 2016 01:41:28 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com  wrote:
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First law of business: there is a free lunch when the customer pays for it.


NT

Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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* Must be the old wimpy Alnico magnets, which degrade over time all by  
themselves.
   Present magnetic technology gives us truly permanent magnets; these  
magnets cannot degrade and i doubt the accuracy of that statement.

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Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?

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They can degrade due to heating above Curie point.

The amount of energy stored in a permanent magnet will be less than what it  
took to make it. You can estimate the energy by making an electromagnet with  
the same strength, and the energy will be 0.5 * L * I^2.

You can make a very powerful electromagnet that uses no power, by using  
superconductors. All you need is current. Some power may be needed to make  
up for losses in the current generating equipment, but once current is  
flowing, it will continue. Of course, you also need considerable power to  
run refrigeration equipment to maintain near absolute zero.

Paul  


Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
On 05/09/16 11:19, P E Schoen wrote:
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Won't L depend on the permeability of the magnet material?

Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
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it
ith

These things are greater than unity efficiency, apparently. We know it is n
ot possible. The generator and motor have specially wound armatures that I  
believe have transistors in them to intermittently disrupt a magnetic field
. The examples I have seen have separate units and a flywheel. However I am
 sure a unit could be built that would be all in on unit and eliminate all  
belts and whatnot. And if they had it running that way it would be alot bet
ter my way.  

Look up the Hummingbird Motor, once you understand that then think about a  
generator made with the same technology, and then you know how it works. Th
e cost is the problem.  

The permanent magnets used in these are not Alnico to say the least. These  
things need the bestest of the bestest magnets.  

The last I heard was that they were working on an electric car that ran on  
one of those. We lost touch so I don't know what is up with it now. They mi
ght just have decided to go secret, and not even patent the thing. It has s
uch a limited market, and a patent app will just give the idea to everyone.
  

Some rich guys would buy it, especially those who believe that society is g
oing down. But I am not interested in it.

Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes:

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The not working is the problem.

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--  

John Devereux

Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
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They work.

Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
On Monday, September 5, 2016 at 3:32:30 AM UTC-7, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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  That's the bottom line right there.

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  It can't be "understood" because it's never explained.

  "Permanent" magnets are not permanent. They are energy storage devices. It takes energy to magnetize them. Extract that energy and they demagnetize.

  Don't buy into bullshit handwaving about magnets "gating" energy in from somewhere else.

  There ain't no free lunch.


  Mark L. Fergerson

Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
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 It takes energy to magnetize them. Extract that energy and >they demagneti
ze. "

Well at least you understand the concept somewhat, while the closed minded  
just dismiss it. This is what that device uses, and they are those extremel
y strong magnets.  

Actually these things are less mysterious than a dry cell battery. You asse
mble that carbon, zinc and powder stuff in there and you  
"magically" get 1.5 volts.  

I know two people who worked on them and like I said I grilled them about i
t. They work but after a few years they quit, and I am pretty sure they can
not be rebuilt currently. There might be a way to engineer it so the magnet
 packs can be replaced, but those things are so strong that if you put them
 in the same box it will take ten guys to get them apart.  

And again, SOMETHING magnetized them like you said. So all it is doing it e
xtracting that energy.  

The dry cell is ore miraculous. People with education but limited understan
ding poo poo this thing and claim it does not exist. They think if they don
't know it it is not true. They do not get it. This is not a perpetual moti
on machine or a Hendershot scam, it actually works.  

But at what it costs it is for billionaires who intend to survive the Apoca
lypse.  

but actually, the way you put it gave me a little bit more insight to it. I
t is actually using the energy that was used to magnetize those magnets. So
 it did come from somewhere.  

Now, how efficient is it ? I have no idea. I would have to have one and be  
able to measure its decrease in performance over the years, and then have t
he numbers on making those neodinium or whatever magnets and probably a few
 other things. And of course manufacturing costs which I imagine are not tr
ivial.

But it is not the Hendershot scam, I can say that much for sure.

Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
jurb6006 wrote in message  

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Some "permanent magnets" are actually magnetized by electrical or mechanical  
means, and can be demagnetized and remagnetized. The more powerful rare  
earth magnets apparently get their strength from the material itself in  
combination with other materials, but also may require processing to  
magnetize them. The energy required for magnetization is likely rather  
insignificant, and comparable to that of an electromagnet of similar size  
and strength. Probably in the order of 100 watt-seconds (Joules), while the  
daily energy usage of a house is in the order of 5,000 watt-hours, or 18  
million Joules!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_magnet

Also consider the relative magnetic field strength of the most powerful  
rare-earth magnets (less than 1.5 Teslas), compared to electromagnets which  
can attain the ferromagnetic limit of 1.6 T. Stronger magnetic fields can be  
produced by non-saturating air-core electromagnets, up to about 35 T.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnet

Also interesting is the range of magnetic field strengths measureable,  
attainable on earth, and observed in the cosmos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28magnetic_field%29

And another fascinating subject is coin shrinking, using extremely high  
current microsecond pulses to create fields strong enough to plastically  
deform coins. I didn't see how many Teslas it was, but energy was in the  
order of 5000 J.

http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/shrinkergallery.html

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No magic there. Chemical reactions can be exothermic, or capable of  
releasing energy stored in molecular bonds. Carbon based fuels, TNT,  
nitroglycerine, etc. Some reactions are reversible, such as rechargeable  
batteries, or electrolysis of water to store energy and oxidation of  
hydrogen to release it.

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The energy contained therein is insignificant.

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Not really. The elements were created in stars using nuclear fusion, and the  
magnetic properties are fairly well understood consequences of atomic  
structure. Magnetization is also well understood.

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Every claim of free energy, or unusually high production of energy from  
supposed "cold fusion" processes, that I have seen, seems to have  
significant flaws in measurement techniques and false assumptions that  
produce impossible results. If any of these had any validity, they would be  
in use and readily observable. It's fun to speculate and dream, but reality  
trumps all of these concepts.

Paul  


Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?

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Yep. Many years ago, a coworker showed me a free-energy generator that looked  
like an electrical motor involving a bunch of rotating permanent magnets  
following complicated paths such that net torque was supposed to be  
generated. (No electrical current was involved - all mechanical.) The  
coworker challenged me to disprove the motor design. I declined to try,  
saying that it would take me at least a full-time month to do an adequate  
analysis, and that I already knew the answer - it cannot work. His reply was  
to ask how I could be so sure without doing the analysis? Because I know that  
magnetic fields (and electric fields) are conservative in the full physics  
sense of the word, which means that they exactly conserve energy - nothing is  
lost or gained, no matter what. How can you be so sure that these fields are  
conservative? Because I can see the stars at night. Huh? What do stars have  
to do with it?

Well, visible light is electromagnetic radiation, where the energy shuttles  
from magnetic field to electric field and back to magnetic field ~10^14 times  
per second, and we can see starlight that has been traveling through space  
for billions of years. A billion years is ~10^76 seconds, so that?s ~10^90  
oscillations. If there were the slightest loss or gain per oscillation, the  
sky would be completely dark (loss) or blazing white (gain). Given that we  
can see stars, even ones billions of light years away, the loss or gain must  
be infinitesimal, and certainly insufficient to spin a motor armature.

Joe Gwinn



Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?
AT Tuesday 06 September 2016 22:02, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

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Great reasoning.  

But is this also true when I' wearing my tin foil hat? ;-)

--  
Reinhardt


Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?

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Only if the shiny side is on the outside.

Joe Gwinn


Re: is the hendershot generator ad a scam?

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By the way, what prompted be to think of starry skies was Olbers?  
Paradox:<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olbers%27_paradox .

Joe Gwinn


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