Wouldn't it be simpler to just get a real newsreader? It's not like they're all that hard to find.
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
...
Quite slow if you're thinking in comparison to ion space drives. it's in the range of a few tens of meters per second, recalling from memory for the "lifters" that have been made by amateur experimenters.
Bob Clark
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize
21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it:Nanotech: from air to space.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's analogous to ion drive in that it ionizes a gas then uses electric fields to direct the charged gas molecules backwards to provide thrust.
For ion space drives you want the propellant to accelerate to high speed to achieve high exhaust velocity. This means you can achieve high speed for the spacecraft with a small amount of propellant according to the rocket equation. This requires though a high amount of power to generate those high exhaust speeds.
For the corresponding air vehicle propulsion you don't want the air accelerated speeds to be high because you would be going at slow speed for the vehicle or just hovering. This can generate higher thrust with a reduced exhaust velocity.
This video explains their operation:
How Ion Propulsion, Lifters and Ionocrafts Work.
I like this one because the experimenter attached the ion drive device to a model of the Enterprise(!)
Bob Clark
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The power required to fly by aircraft is the same no matter the motive source.
A small 4 place aircraft typically has about a 140 kW engine, a small
2 place helicopter double that.-- Jim Pennino
source.
Nope. The _thrust_ required is the same, other things being equal. There are lots of ways of doing it less efficiently, i.e. requiring more power for the same thrust. Rockets, light pressure, air ions....
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Using the Windows newsreader mostly out of familiarity. What do you recommend for a newsreader?
Bob Clark
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In regards to the mode of operation, the lifters don't operate via electron emission. The air molecule ion production is due to the intense electric fields around the high voltage wires, a known phenomenon among electrical engineers called corona discharge or electrical breakdown. The wires are usually horizontal for most lifters and the corona field is generated around the length of the horizontal wires, not at the tips of the wires. There versions of the lifters that use the ionization around the end tips or wires, but this is also due to the intense field strength there, not electron emission.
The corona in small diameter wires in electronic devices is limited by the coatings placed on the wires. In the lifters, the wires used are uncoated.
A recent paper showed for nanowires at diameters in the range of 100 nm, the corona discharge in air arises at voltages of only about 100 V/m. This is compared to the 3,000,000 V/m normally found in air for macroscale wires:
Nanoscale Res Lett. 2016; 11: 90. Published online 2016 Feb 16. doi: 10.1186/s11671-015-1217-4 ZnO Nanowire-Based Corona Discharge Devices Operated Under Hundreds of Volts. Wenming Yang, Rong Zhu,corresponding author and Xianli Zong
This doesn?t show you can get thrust at these lower voltages, but the results on the air ionization are in accordance to what the mathematics predicts. And the air ionization is what generates the thrust. New ideas should be subjected to critical review. But that critical review should include testing to see if they actually work.
Bob Clark
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also the end tips of sewing needles as they have a tiny tip and being steel more resistant to end erosion and are cheap.
If you have corona you have electron emmision by definition and with electron emmision you get tip erosion.
Hardly a surprise.
Why do you think Van de Graaff generators are topped by a big, round, smooth ball?
Did you ever do the high school experiment where you scotch tape a thumbtack to a Van de Graaff generator?
Again, tip erosion, RFI, and total power required.
-- Jim Pennino
I'm using MicroPlanet Gravity as my newsreader. It is o.k. The "killfile" is called the "bozo bin", but that's pretty self explanatory. It displays messages in a threaded hierarchy, which is nice. Quotes properly for a newsreader. And was fairly easy to set up and get used to.
Jeff
-- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
Toys.
what math ? got a url ?
The silly bugger produces ions with a corona wire, then he forgets to bring them up to speed with a high voltage. he thinks the corona wire itself will make a drive..........
Maybe he should go to nasa website to see how they did it. Or google for ion drive design.
ds
sNo, that just lets us easily exceed Work Function barrier on the ionization emitter.
A separate problem is the accelerating voltage needed as an air pump. The charge-density of ionized air must be fairly small, otherwise its own fiel ds override the fields applied for thrust/steering. The higher the accele rating potential, the higher the charge density can be, and the larger the wattage going into accelerating some air.
Light weight: piezo transformers. Perhaps also eliminate all the HV rec tifiers by having your nano-emitters produce asymmetrical output (perhaps s pewing negative ions when pure AC is applied.) But only if AC followed by voltage multipliers isn't the best solution.
If you know of a means to provide 50,000 V at *lightweight* then you will have solved the problem of an independently flying lifter, using the macrosized wires currently used. You would need about a power to weight ratio for the power source of better than 1 watt per gram, while being able to provide these ca. 50,000 V voltages.
Bob Clark
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trivial; look at any camera flash unit built in the last several decades.
However you have totally missed the point; voltage and the weight of the converter is irrelevant as it is the total power that determines the weight of it all.
BTW, here are some real world power to weight ratios:
Boeing 777 engine 10 kW/kg
1985 Chevy Celebrity 300 W/kg Lithium-ion battery 85 W/kg nickel-metal battery 116 W/kg zinc air fuel cell 500 W/kg-- Jim Pennino
1985 Chevy Celebrity 300 W/kg
Are you trying to say airplanes aren't going to make it in the commercial world?
-- Jim Pennino
Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying: "Airplanes with ion drive are not going to make it in the commercial world." Whatever technology can make that work will be FAR less costly applied to something that rolls along the roadway.
But that misses the point that it's ENERGY that's the concern. Doesn't matter how light or powerful the airplane engine is if it still can't lift enough fuel to reach the destination. It takes a given amount of energy to get from here to there. Changing the engine only affects the efficiency of the process that converts the available fuel source to whatever it takes to motivate the vehicle. Maybe we'll see terrestrial ion engines, but the efficiency improvement won't be huge.
If we had an electric fuel source of sufficient energy/weight ratio, we'd already have electric airplanes.
If you're gonna spend millions of dollars to fling an object into space at escape velocity, it makes sense to have a nuclear power source that applies tiny thrust for a long time using minimal reaction mass to continue the flight to places unknown. For a terrestrial flight to New York, not so much.
So, what am I missing?
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.