household outdoor/wet location connections

Hi,

I have CATV/phone/network connections in several places on the outside of the house. Of course, these have to be "weatherproof" (just for the sake of the connectors themselves).

I initially had the connectors "exposed" under a hinged cover (that was not intended to seal watertight. This was kind to the cabling mated to the connectors. But, left the connectors more vulnerable.

I replaced these (covers) with spring-loaded, "water tight" covers which protect the connectors better (when NOT in use). But, the spring-loaded doors put lots of stress on the cables *mated* to the connectors.

So, I'm looking for yet another option. Perhaps something

*designed* for outdoor use (so far, the connectors I have used have NOT been "special" in any way).

Ideally, connectors/covers that treat each connection individually -- so exposing one connection doesn't require exposing another UNUSED connection (e.g., think in terms of duplex receptacles). Maybe even the REALLY old fashioned "screw cover" plates?

Thx,

--don

Reply to
Don Y
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We always used a rubber compound to seal those connectors. Lot's of sources, used on both communications and in automotive work (to seal holes, and such, in vehicles. Never hardens, very sticky, usually black (but you can get gray). You kneed it for a while to warm it up and soften it, then work it around the connectors. Very water tight. Very hard to get off the hands when done, but hey, that's life.

--
I'm never going to grow up.
Reply to
PeterD

Look at Amphenol's RJF families. The RJF 544 types aren't *terribly* pricey and they are rated IP67. They use standard "RJ-45" connectors internally, so there are no special issues regarding maintaining the twist or pair matching, etc.

--
Rich Webb     Norfolk, VA
Reply to
Rich Webb

That would be fine for sealing *inside* the connectors (wire-side). But, using it on the mating face would imply you aren't going to ever *separate* the connectors, right?

(Silicone caulk also works well. For buried connections -- like landscape lighting -- I run the wires into an old "pill bottle" and then pump it full of silicone caulk, wait for it to "cure", then bury in soil.)

I.e., I want to be able to plug a phone, TV cable, computer, etc. into one of these connectors WHEN I NEED TO and then *unplug* it, later -- and have the connector that remains be protected thereafter (i.e., by a watertight door, etc.)

Reply to
Don Y

It doesn't look like the jack is protected when *not* mated (?). Though mated looks to be an ideal solution!

I will have to look at some dimensioned drawings to see if I can hide it behind a conventional hinged cover or similar.

Anything *like* these for the phone and CATV?

Reply to
Don Y

They also have IP67 caps available, of course. The product's PDF flyer has dimensioned drawings and it looks like they'd fit into a commercial weather box.

Sure. Mil/aero/marine/industrial services use connectors designed for harsh environments all the time. Amphenol RF is one place to start but there are many others. Be warned that price goes up with ruggedness.

--
Rich Webb     Norfolk, VA
Reply to
Rich Webb

OK. Looks like they have covered the case of mated and *not* mated. Interesting to see firewire, usb, etc. connectors offered as well. Obviously, they are thinking in terms of equipment cases (not "back porches"! :> )

I didn't see anything suitable for RF. E.g., F connectors. Maybe I can find a similar bayonet connector and use that (since the cable that mates to it will need the "weatherproof hood", I can just as easily put a BNC connector on one end and F on the other)

I'm looking at onesy-twosies so cost isn't a big deal.

Thanks!

Reply to
Don Y

I've looked at connectors left "out in the elements" that don't look too good. E.g., even connectors at the masthead have rubber hoods, etc.

I have similar terminators on my *indoor* connectors.

But dealing with the elements also involves the space *around* the connector/bulkhead. E.g., you can put this behind a typical NEMA "wet location" cover. But, then whatever is in the "other half" (think: duplex receptacle) of the fixture has to be compatible with that sort of cover. (consider the connectors Rich mentioned previously -- I want RJ11, RJ45 and F connectors available in each "location")

Ideally, I would like to find a "family" of connectors that solves this same problem in similar ways -- so I can come up with one packaging approach instead of "do this for this half of the connection point, and THIS for the other half..."

Currently, I'm pursuing the ANCIENT "wet location" covers (round screw on caps) so I can adopt an *indoor* connector solution and just overlay the "wet location" caps on that.

Reply to
Don Y

I used a standard *INDOOR* wall keystone-type plate, cut down to fit within the inside width and height of a weatherproof-while-in-use receptacle cover. I left just enough height on the wall plate to allow me to bolt the plate to the cover.

So far it has worked admirably for over ten months.

-- Thomas

Reply to
Thomas
[elided]

OK. In my case, I'd have to use these "component" wallplates (i.e., mix and match various different connectors and combinations).

But, the actual wall plate is pretty *thick* (front to back). I suspect this is because the "front surface" effectively has to support these "plug in, modular connectors".

So, the "cap" that covers the connector is deep enough to clear the extent that the connector protrudes beyond the "front surface"?

Did you remove/disable the springs that would normally hold the "cap" closed (protecting the connector)? (all of the covers I've seen -- that *seal* -- are spring-loaded)

If so, how effective is the seal without the spring tension?

If *not*, how do you handle the stress that it puts on the "back side" of the cable-to-connector joint of the *mating* cable? That was the problem I experienced -- if I left a cable plugged in for a prolonged time (much of the year is temperate here so you can easily leave a phone, TV, etc. out on the porch for months at a time), the cable became flakey because of the constant pressure on that flex point.

I.e., if you unplugged the cable, it invariably looked like an "L" -- with the wire being the upright portion of the L and the connector the other! This isn't as bad for bulky coax but was a killer for phone/network.

(I also wonder how much of this stress is transferred to the stationary connector's contacts)

The connectors Rich pointed out were great because they looked like they would be protected when NOT in use as well as when *IN* use (though with that obvious "MIL feel").

Reply to
Don Y

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |||||||||||||||||||||||||

Note the *weatherproof-while-in-use* above. These covers are designed to have a power cord plugged in and the cover closed *without* placing undue stress on the cord-to-plug area. All the ones I've seen at the hardware stores and home centers (Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.) are transparent or semi-transparent.

The keystone plate I used (in fact all the plates I've used over the years) are no thicker at the edges than a standard plastic indoor wall plate. The area of the plates that the keystone-style jack (be it modular, RCA, F, etc.) is box-shaped to accommodate the jack insert. This area extends into the box, so if you go this route ensure the box you use is at least deep enough to account for this as well as leaving enough room so as not to stress the connections *inside* the box when the plate/cover assembly is screwed to the box.

Your thinking of the usual weatherproof cover, which is not allowed per the NEC in the US except where shielded from direct exposure to rainfall, e.g house-side wall of a porch (other countries have similar rule?).

Where exposed to direct rainfall, all receptacles must be fitted with with

*weatherproof-while-in-use* covers. (IIRC this was mandated in the NEC back in 2005).

With the spring-loaded typically gray duplex covers so abundant everywhere (and a lot of them don't meet today's NEC in the US) I understand your thinking of this type of cover here. I've yet to see a weatherproof-while-in-use cover anywhere (aside from the ones I myself have installed)

This is why I used a weatherproof-while-in-use cover for my outside phone jack. No stress on the cable-to-plug connection nor the plug-to-jack connection.

The cover I used wasn't exactly cheep: about 12USD for the one I purchased at the hardware store. Well worth it, though.

God Bless.

--

Thomas
Reply to
Thomas

Ah, my bad.

the

Understood. The ones I installed for the electric outlets are made by "Red Dot". Cast out of -- both the plate and *cover*.

They come in two different orientations -- horizontal (so the "outlets" are located side by side) and vertical (outlets above each other). This affects where teh hinge is located.

I opted for the horizontal orientation as power cords don't have to lay on top of each other as they try to exit the cover.

The problem with these is that they aren't "sealed" when not in use. E.g., I've encountered AC receptacles with *plugged* ground "holes". It appears that certain insects find places like this to lay eggs (?) which they then "seal" in place.

These actually have reinforced areas behind the "mounting holes" because the face of the plate (which is what the mounting screw would bottom *into*) is so far above the "seating plane" of the plate itself. (I noticed this when purchasing them as the plates would have cracked from mechanical stress when "tightened down", otherwise)

I.e., I may have to just find some other plates.

if

*inside*

Yes, I use what are called "deep" wet location boxes. A good three (?) inches from front to back -- *plus* an additional ~3/4" "extension" attached to the face. More space (volume) is always better than less! Especially when you are trying to bend RG6Q *in* the box.

Understood.

I see the "spring-loaded" covers sold everywhere. Even new designs (e.g., for GFCI's). Though the "screw on caps" from ~50 years past seem to be gone (maybe I'll try a surplus yard).

Understood. But see above.

When I removed one of the trim boards that runs the length of the house, it was *filled* with tightly rolled "leaf cuttings"! I guess there is a bee/wasp that literally cuts the leaves off of certain plants (i.e., chews across the leaf to cause part of it to fall off) and uses it to protect its eggs?

Too many damn critters! I wonder what will happen when I move the kiln out there?? :<

Reply to
Don Y

One detail I forgot to mention: the cover I used is the GFCI style, not the standard duplex. By trimming the indoor keystone plate to fit the rectangular hole in the cover and bolting the plate to the back of the cover I made a custom weatherproof-while-in-use phone jack cover.

If I had a camera I would take a picture for you so you could see exactly what I did (picture being a thousand words and all) but alas I'm not that fortunate...yet)

(I used an RJ-45 jack and plug; this permits not only the one voice and the DSL lines, but allows two more voice lines in the future. I try to think ahead and allow for future expansion/use whenever I do something like this. I felt allowing for three voice lines was plenty. As it turned out, my wife would like an office for her (very small at the moment) business; dedicated voice and fax line for this can now be easily added because of my foresight.)

I Hope this helps.

God Bless.

--

Thomas
Reply to
Thomas

custom

I can picture the cover and "fitting" the plate into it. But, can't see how you'd fasten them together once that is done. I.e., the difference between the traditional duplex "wet use cover" and the GFCI variant is (besides the shape of the hole(s)) the presence/absence of that "cross piece" between the two outlets (which has a mounting hole in it).

Not to worry. I will look at one of them on my next visit to Home Despot/Glowes/Space/etc. I vaguely recall the wet use cover having LOTS of mounting options (to the wet use junction box); no doubt to cover different configurations that might be encountered. So, there is probably a set of suitable holes that you availed yourself of that I can't envision...

I

fortunate...yet)

Understood. Inside the house, each wall plate has three connections: phone, network and "antenna/cable". I opted to use a *red* RJ45 connector for the network connections (the wallplate itself is white; as are the other "snap in connector modules"). I felt this would help safeguard against "phones" being plugged into "network" outlets. This also makes it easier to visually identify where you want to plug in your laptop, etc.

(I have a box of ~500 such RJ45 "modules" in various colors. Red seemed the most visually distinguishable. It *says*, "there is something different about me; think twice before you use me!")

Yup. Originally I had a 25 pair cable connecting the telephone network interface to the distribution panel (punchdown blocks) in the house. When I ran the (2!) RG6Q's for the CATV feed, I opted to replace it since I wanted to save myself the hassle of drilling another hole through the masonry to get the wires to the outside of the house. (the existing hole wouldn't have been large enough for the two RG6Q's

*and* the 25 pair telco cable).

I could then have chosen to run some 12 pair to replace the 25 pair. Or, the two CAT5's. Since all of the above were more than I'd ever *need*, the CAT5's won the day! (again, with the realization that I could eventually put a truly high speed interface on the other end of the wire -- when/if the "utilities" decide to move into the 21st century)

Reply to
Don Y

There's two ways to weatherproof a splice; one is to seal it with a wrap of fusion tape (a rubbery self-adhering tape, available in rubber or silicone variants), another is 'liquid tape', which is painted on.

Then, you put some enclosure around it (nowadays, often a heavy heatshrink tube), and then you can bury it.

The other way, is to leave the splice unsealed, perhaps with a dab of grease inside the connector to exclude water, and (at most) a rain cover. This, though, cannot be buried where ground water is possible, it has to be up a few inches from the soil. You also must enter the rain cover enclosure from BELOW, so raindrops don't cling to the cable and pour in, but drip from the upward-headed cable at a low point (drip loop).

Reply to
whit3rd

custom

I drilled my own holes in the plate, then marked and drilled the holes in the cover. You don't need very big bolts. I used #6 bolts (with washers on the cover side) to fasten the two together. 3/4 inch long, IIRC.

Use the GFCI snap-in, then trim the wall plate to just fit the cover without interference with the box when the cover is attached. Again, I trimmed the wall plate just enough past the hole (towards the center of the plate) to allow me to drill mounting holes in the plate *and* not interfere with the mounting post in the box (if FS type (PVC) box), or the device mounting tab (or plate) in the metal box (which I used). (I've seen metal boxes both ways: with tab/plate and post style device mounting methods. I've only ever seen FS boxes with posts.)

what I

DSL

I used blue, mainly because thats the only ones I could get at the time. (The RJ-25s where almond/beige.) And they matched the cable I used (the jacket was blue. ;) )

Just a note: my preference is gray-jacketed cable for voice, blue for data. Color-coding saves a lot of confusion, yes?

like

The wife and I discussed at one point that if we ever built a house, we would not run coax everywhere. Instead, we would set up a low-end-ish tower with four video capture cards in it and enough hard drive capacity for about 200 hours of recording, install openSUSE on it (the hardware requirements for openSUSE are minimal), then set it up as as a video recorder. Attached to the capture cards were to be standard, non-DVR satellite receivers (DirecTV or Dish, whichever was to best value) set up so the PC could control them.

Since we would pretty much have a PC where we wanted to watch "TV", including the living room, this would not be a problem. Since we also rip our CDs and DVDs to my computer (it has the HDD capacity), setting up a media server made sense. With the satellite receivers connected to the "video capture" tower, which would have been set up to allow us to transfer those recordings we wanted to keep long term to the media server, we effectively would have created our own four-channel DVR. (If you have a satellite-provider provided DVR receiver and forget to pay the bill you won't be able to watch any recorded material once your service is cut off. The DVR functions are disabled along with the regular view-only function. I suspect cable equipment works the same, yes?)

Just an idea.

And I agree with you on the utilities being stuck in the last century.

--

Thomas
Reply to
Thomas

Hi Thomas,

cover

Ah, OK. You changed the rules ;-) I've been trying to recall what the wet location covers, etc. that *I've* used looked like (without actually removing one from its mounts) and how you made use of that. :-/

My other half wanted white. Until I pointed out how hard it would be to look at two similar looking connectors (RJ11&45) and get the "right one", without careful examination and thought about the connector IN YOUR HAND. (I've been cherry picking red "patch cords" and putting them in the laptop cases to drive home this issue)

I ran (white) CAT3 for phone and (blue or grey) CAT5 for the network stuff (that's what I had on hand). Or course, the RG6Q is obviously recognizable (black and *thick*!).

I had thought about running two CAT5's to each drop (instead of a CAT5 and a CAT3) to be even *more* "future safe". But, seeing that the CAT3's would be terminated in an entirely different place than the CAT5's (i.e., not suitable for adding a network switch near the punchdown panels at a later date), it seemed best to just live with the three different cable types.

like

fax

Coax as in "CATV".

was

DVDs

would

long

four-channel

This is exactly what I've been doing. Though extending it to encompas audio and automation, as well.

I got tired of all the little piles of "consumer kit" cluttering up the house. DVD player, "stereo" amplifier, CD player, TV tuner, TV, speakers, etc. in each bedroom, family room, living room, etc. (Gee, what if I want to sit outside and watch TV? Weather is always "fine"...)

So, I ran CAT5 *everywhere* when we were remodeling (e.g., there are four separate drops in the living room alone -- so the TV can sit in any corner, etc.). But, I got nervous about NOT having phone and CATV in those places: what happens when you sell the house and the new owners aren't as "tech savvy"? ("Martha, where do we plug in the PHONE?? And where is the cable TV connection???!").

"Wire is cheap" so I ran one of everything (if you don't need/use it, replace the wall plate with "whatever" is appropriate and push the wire back into the wall cavity). There are drops that feed speakers mounted in the ceiling for background music, audio announcements ("Someone is at the front door"), etc.

I also ran CAT5 drops to the four corners of the house (think: PTZ IP cameras), front porch (so you can see who is at the door!), etc.

And, additional specific drops for other "special needs" (e.g., to the irrigation system controller, HVAC controller, etc.). There are drops for bluetooth modules scattered around the house/property to allow roaming devices to be "located" (I.e., I can wear a BT earpiece or use a BT enabled PDA or cell phone to "talk" to the house as well as having it figure out where I am: "Ah, he wants to watch _Buckaroo Banzai_ in the *family* room..." -- location-aware computing)

Toys for retirement! :>

(actually, there are several different technologies involved that I am exploring or developing for clients... being a guinea pig is a great test platform!)

I think there are some older Tivo's that will work even after the subscription has expired ("disabled"). I am thinking of one sitting in a friend's shop... I will have to examine it and see, for sure.

But, MythTV or any of the commercial DVR software packages (usually come with "camera cards") would also work (dubious quality). Content providers don't want you having (legitimate!) copies of content. They'd rather have you pay for *each* viewing of that content!

I've been accumulating (ahem) "broken" DTV STBs with an eye towards a poor man's multichannel OTA DVR. The tuner is the tough part. Once you've got the signal off the airwaves, the rest is just busy work.

One that many folks share ;-)

No pressure on them to change.

Reply to
Don Y

Sorry, "splices" aren't the issue (perhaps I should have said "connection points"? "outlets"? :-/ ). I.e., "I want to plug in a phone/computer/TV on the back porch -- which is sometimes subjected to the elements."

For direct burial, I put the "splice" in a "pill bottle" and then squirt silicone "caulk" into the bottle until it is full/solid. Then, throw the whole thing in the ground.

The bottle gives a form to the silicone (just trying to squirt silicone on a splice is messy and doesn't guarantee the silicon won't "ooze off" before it sets). And, it makes the splice easy to handle as you are setting it in the ground (no need to wait for the silicone to dry completely).

If the splice is far inside the bottle, the silicone seals around the *edges* of the removed insulation, as well. This keeps moisture from wicking up under the insulation and corroding the wire(s). (I *think* you could probably set the splice in a bucket of water without fear!)

And, above all, it's CHEAP! :>

Reply to
Don Y

cover

Sometimes you have to change the rules when there's no other option, as in this case.

Why aren't weatherproof covers available for communications jacks (phone, data, cable/sat, etc.)????? Surely there's a market for such.

God Bless

--

Thomas
Reply to
Thomas

cover

There are and there is. However, The market is obviously smaller than you think it is (they cost more than a nickel).

Reply to
krw

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