Group etiquette...

If you want your unwritten contracts to include your not being allowed to strike, that's fine... but certainly most people aren't going to feel that way! (Especially since there's no reciprocity whereby an employer isn't allowed to lay people off...)

That being said, where there are contracts/laws in place, if strikes are specifically disallowed and people strike anyway, they have nothing to cry about if they end up getting fired: What Reagan did with the air traffic controllers in 1981 was perfectly reasonable... heck, he even gave them 48 hours notice to get back on the job first, which is more than he actually

*had* to do.

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner
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Hey. I'm not trying to argue a logical case here:)

I did a quiz, the results didn't agree with my view of me and I pointed out the failure of the quiz.

I employ people, if they don't like the job they can leave any time. Also if someone doesn't suit me I can terminate their employment.

I don't believe "organized" labour has the right to disrupt a business. I also feel a duty to try and keep someone employed if posssible - an attitude that could be stress tested in the next few months:(

If the job is bad and the business loses staff then the business has to improve the working conditions to attract staff. If the business can attract the right staff then what are people complaining about?

Reply to
Raveninghorde

Jim Thomps>You're right. We should stay out of other people's faces.

Let's examine the facts:

Country - Iran Status - suspected clandestine nuclear enrichment program Relation to USA - outwardly hostile; the populace digs us Response by USA - watching

Country - North Korea Status - producing nuclear weapons; buying short-range rockets Relation to USA - hostile Response by USA - watching

Country - Pakistan Status - nuclear power Relation to USA - ostensibly an ally; really in it for the money--playing both ends against the middle; won't actually persue and capture a criminal presumed to be within their borders and wanted by the USA Response by USA - conciliatory, coddling

Country - Iraq Status - nuke program was all a bluff; other weapons expended on its own populace Relation to USA - a lot of impotent sabre rattling before 2003; in 2009, most of them want us out of their country Response by USA - invasion

Lesson to be learned: Get nukes as fast as you can so the USA won't invade you.

Describe a country that can *deliver* a WMD to the USA that didn't have that capability at the end of the Cold War.

Having rattled sabres and picked fights, the old farts of that day sent him and the others (not their own family members) into harm's way. Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.

So, a civilian job where you wouldn't see military combat. Goes very much to my point.

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Reply to
JeffM

You appear to be confusing the concept of not being allowed to strike (as is the case with US soldiers in combat), which is an infringement of your individual liberty, and the entirely different concept of your employer not being allowed to fire you if you do strike, which is an infringement of his individual liberty. Libertarians are against both kinds of infringements on individual liberty, and would allow either party to sever the employment at will. Libertarians are also in favor of contracts, so if you really want an employee who cannot strike or an employer who cannot fire, you are free to seek someone who will sign a contract agreeing to those restrictions. You do not have a right to impose those restrictions on the unwilling.

--
Guy Macon
Reply to
Guy Macon

Perhaps it is your wiew of you which is incorrect.

"A libertarian is a person who believes that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being, or to advocate or delegate its initiation. Those who act consistently with this principle are libertarians, whether they realize it or not. Those who fail to act consistently with it are not libertarians, regardless of what they may claim." --L Neil Smith

--
Guy Macon
Reply to
Guy Macon

Just like a leftist weenie, crop out the part about joining the USAF was part of the game plan.

(1) Would you have joined USAF rather than accepting MIT scholarship? Of course not, you f*ck-head.

(2) I've designed more military gear and (nasty) weapons than you've ever seen, let alone used.

(3) Re-plonk.

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Tell me, Jeff. I went to register for the draft, and to see about the air force to see if I could get into avionics. I failed the physical, with five separate 4F ratings and was told I could not enlist in any branch. Then the draft board found out I was working in electronics and drafted me. I tested out of a three year engineering course, and was assigned to work in microwave and CATV systems, weather monitoring system Educational TV at my first assignment. I also repaired some Korean War vintage RADAR, and installed the sound system in the General's conference room. My last assignment was with AFRTS as a broadcast engineer. My only contact with weapons was in basic, and when I had to re-qualify with the M16 a few days before I left the service.

I had an uncle in the Navy who worked on the weapons systems on a nuclear powered sub, and an aunt and uncle who were in the Army during W.W. II. My dad was eligible right after Korea, when they were still releasing a lot of the people being brought home. By the time they were looking for volunteers, he had married and started a family.

I was also offered a civil service job at Ft. Rucker, and turned it down.

How does all of this fit into your neat little pigeonholing system?

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The first sign of insanity is denying that you\'re crazy.
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

I got a more freedom loving score than you did.

Reply to
JosephKK

The test has an obvious flaw in not allowing "neither agree nor disagree". It could be made better with a "the question does not make sense" answer.

Reply to
JosephKK

Eyeore will never be master of much of anything significant. More nuisance than anything else. In spite of that i almost like the donkey.

Reply to
JosephKK

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

So, you served. You earned the right to have any opinion on the military. This meme was at the heart of a Heinlein novel:

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(The movie was junk and had a more accurate description of its intentions in its working title: "Bug Hunt on Outpost 9".)

I didn't invent the term Chickenhawk. It is a widely-used expression for people who advocate (or actually *excercise* the power of) sending *others* into combat without having any history of military service **themselves**.

If I ever intimated that *you* were a chickenhawk, it was an error and I apologize.

Thompson, OTOH, is a classic chickenhawk.

Reply to
JeffM

Yep, perfectly reasonable.

I think the counterargument here is that organized labor has the right to disrupt a business (by striking) so long as companies have the right to engage in mass layoffs that disrupt entire communities... or even nations, if you believe what the automakers claim about needing a bailout.

In general I think that workers tend to be too paranoid about their managers' motives (many of them really do want to provide a decent work environment at a competitive wage -- not just act as slave drivers who'll fire people any chance they can get if they think they can hire a replacement for a dollar an hour less), whereas the major problem managers have is that many of them are largely incapable of distinguishing who the really good workers in their company are and who the weak ones are, so things like raises and promotionals are far more often tied to how well employees schmooze rather than how useful they actually are: On both sides it's often the case of "ascribing to malice that which is more correctly ascribed to incompetence," as the saying goes.

It shouldn't surprise anyone here that John Larkin and Jim Thompson have been self-employed for decades now... :-)

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner

I have become unsure about that. Has he ever posted on topic? If so it has been a while. Not a good sign.

Reply to
JosephKK

Hi Guy,

...and those who belong to government unions, such as the air traffic controllers in '81.

Reply to
Joel Koltner

Of course, the tricky part here is defining what "initiate force" means... many people would say that if your neighbor is building up his atomic stockpile, he has, indeed, already "initiated force" and it's OK for you to go and destroy his stockpile before he gets a chance to use it.

Reply to
Joel Koltner

They must hate free will, it is necessary for the escape from responsibility for one's self, which so terrifies them. The inborn duty to master reason, that is the birth right/obligation of humans as a sentient species horrifies them in to retreat from reality.

Reply to
JosephKK

Agreed, but where do you put 0/0? The quesionare is silly.

Reply to
krw

The quiz at

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allows more levels of response and you to rate the questions in order of importance to you.

Reply to
Jasen Betts

They had to call themselves 'Professional Air Traffic Controllers', as opposed to the air traffic controllers who just walked in off the street with no training and started directing air traffic.

With the wworld economy the way it is, the 'United Auto Workers' are quickly becoming the 'Unneeded Auto Workers'

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The first sign of insanity is denying that you\'re crazy.
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

So do the flies in his stall. ;-)

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

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