Greenhorn to PCB making

1 to 3 weeks later!!! Brutal :P

Hopefully by the time the circuit boards arrive, the design hasn't gone obsolete or been through many design revisions. D from BC

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D from BC
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Aquarium supplies, often available cheap (as people or their kids get out of fishkeeping) provide tanks (glass, non reactive) heaters (glass-enclosed) and agitation (water pumps, air pumps, bubblers). Put a bubble wand at the bottom of a tank and etch boards on edge for very nice agitation.

Even brand new stuff to suit typical PCB sizes is cheap.

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Reply to
Ecnerwal

One time I used a bubble stone in ferric chloride..It disintegrated. :( D from BC

Reply to
D from BC

nope, since you will just about expect the previously organised PCB to arrive, you will have time to work on that, and possibly work on the artwork for the next project

Martin

Reply to
Martin Griffith

You know... you would think all this work would "force" you to get it right the first time!!

But I hear you. On complicated boards I usually don't get manual layouts 100% perfect the first time either. So I occasionally end up with a 2nd prototype order.

Reminds me of the time I rebuilt a Ford 302 Engine. Got the whole thing together and then realized I forgot to put the cam on for the fuel pump. (No wonder it wouldn't start!). So I took the whole front of the engine apart and started over....

A couple hours later got the whole thing back together, looked down in the parts bucket and I had forgotten to put it on again!! (Note: The beer wasn't helping...)

-mpm

Reply to
mpm

I'm not a large scale PCB maker by any stretch - nor claim to be. Back when Heath and so on were in business - you could buy TV sets, Ham Equipment, Test Equipment and so on - to build from Kits. Sometimes "cheaper" than "manufactured". Yes, it was at times a "learning" process - especially if you had screw ups of your own, bad parts, etc. But they had all the parts, boards, chassis, etc - right at your finger tips. It was made easy.

My first attempts at PC board making were flawed due to materials. I found out why - the supplied resist pen didn't work. I tried with different materials and made some decent boards. Maybe not the "best" - but decent. For "any" project I make, I'd much rather do my own - cheaper, fun, educational. The only way I'd send out for a board is if the traces are much too small for my eye balls to do or can no longer get the chemicals or other supplies to do so. Gathering up parts now days to build a project is most of the battle. The board - in my opinion - at least for smaller scale projects - is not that big a deal. I also have bought more than enough PC board to do me for a life time.Could probably sell some off cheaper than most places do.

Unless "I" am unable to produce a board for reasons given, I shall always keep making my own. Too much fun - not to. And yes, I've had my own design changes after the fact. I "try" to incorporate all "before" but that isn't easy to do. There is ALWAYS something that comes to mind. So - you have fun and just draw up another one! I thoroughly enjoy building projects from scratch. MY problem is, finding a project - that I can get some use from - not just make it to show off then shove in a drawer never to see light of day - again.

Just my 2 cents.

L.

Reply to
Radiosrfun

We tried several different methods at the college over the last twenty years. By far and away the best results we had were with the laser printer on Staples Photo Gloss paper, muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide from the home depot store, and an aquarium with a bubble TUBE (NOT a stone) and an aquarium heater.

We could hold ten mil lines if we did everything just right. You can also make a component side parts legend by the laser - photo paper method after the board was etched.

After all that work and experimentation, we just moved the class into a "green" building where muriatic and peroxide are not allowed. {:^(

Jim

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"If you think you can, or think you can\'t, you\'re right."
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Reply to
RST Engineering (jw)

meddelelsenews: snipped-for-privacy@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

You missed the whole point of DIY, you can make your own PCB in an hour or two, not 1-3 weeks. An entire project can be conceived, designed, etched, built, and tested in a day.

Dave.

Reply to
David L. Jones

Did it bubble while it disintegrated?

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

I did that many years ago... yah...I think it did bubble for awhile and then the "sand" became unglued...

D from BC

Reply to
D from BC

Not stone, wand - different product, different material (the wand is a long tube, all plastic, that bubbles all along its length- should be immune to most chemistry, unlike the "stones".) Another possibility for the truly old-school is the wooden "air stone". Or just poke some holes in airline.

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Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Reply to
Ecnerwal

The problem with both wands and airline is that they float when filled with air. Keeping the suckers on the bottom of the tank is one of the major problems with using aquarium hardware. We "solved" the problem half a dozen times, only to have the damned bubbler come loose in the middle of a perfectly good etch session.

Jim

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"If you think you can, or think you can\'t, you\'re right."
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Reply to
RST Engineering (jw)

Thanks for all input so far. Being here at a university (I'm currently a Graduate assistant), I think I want to stick with DIY for now: educational purposes for me and eventually my undergrads...

I printed my circuit on the transparent film using an HP1300 LaserJet and the traces seem okay (under a magnifying glass, there dont seem to be any breaks or pin holes in the traces). However, it's possible that the problem I had came during exposure. I placed the clad board with the transparent films on it between two glass panes, but had no clamps to hold the glass panes tightly (I guess I expected the weight of the glass panes to be sufficient). I guess that would probably explain why one side of the board, in all the cases which I've tried so far, had better traces than the other (funny enough, the first PCB I try to make is a double-sided board). I'll take another shot at the board, this time, with weights to clamp the glass panes together...

Just for the records, I used Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) for development and Ferric Chloride Trisilicate for the etching. any criticism on these materials?

Reply to
wale

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:12:11 -0700, RST Engineering (jw) top-posted: [top post repaired, context restored]

If you have a dedicated tank, you could probably epoxy a tube to the floor of the tank.

Cheers! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

Epoxy, RTV, superglue, etc. all work ... for a while. For whatever reason, cupric/cuprous chloride (which is what muriatic acid turns into when you use it for etch) attacks the glass-glue interface and pops it off over time. The only thing that really works is a block of teflon with holes drilled into it, one at each end to weight the tubing down.

Jim

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"If you think you can, or think you can\'t, you\'re right."
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Reply to
RST Engineering (jw)

One time I did make a magnetic stirring set up..Worked ok. I put a neodymium bar magnet on a muffin fan and put that under an etching tray. I then dropped in a bar magnet(in a sealed plastic tube) in the etchant tray.

I'd like to make a fountain type etching set up someday but haven't found a cheapo chemical pump yet.

Alternatively... It's too bad that can't use a "junk store" drink blender and turn that into a etching shower. The blades will corrode.

D from BC

Reply to
D from BC

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:02:47 -0400 in sci.electronics.design, "Radiosrfun" wrote,

Those "supplied" pens are all crap.

Go to a good art supply and get a Staedtler Lumocolor #313 Red pen. If I could not get one of those, I'd try a RED fine point Sharpie. Avoid black, the pigment does _not_ enhance the etch resist properties.

Reply to
David Harmon

Are you placing the transparency with the toner side against the board in each case (this requires one side to be mirrored)? If the toner is on the outside, the UV "shadow" will be in penumbra, resulting in weaker traces.

Clamps will help to prevent misalignment while loading, but there shouldn't be any reason why the film would move during exposure.

Reply to
Nobody

Came across this site via metalworking discussion. A homebrew spray-etch machine and a different etch chemistry (cupric chloride). I haven't used either.

formatting link

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Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Reply to
Ecnerwal

A "Sharpie" is what I use now - and have - since I discovered the problem. But as a novice then, I had no idea and no one around me was doing so. Didn't have "Internet" to refer to for any advice. Had to learn on your own. Luckily, the project I did that went bust - wasn't much of a time waster other than the time of etching.

Reply to
Radiosrfun

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