A valid point might have been if it were the case that Google was applying a double standard in the hiring process, overlooking certain "issues" when women/minorities applied that they did not overlook when it came to white men.
From what I read that did _not_ seem to be the point he was making.
I only correct Danielle's statement. She asserts that incorrect assumptions have been made, while these assumptions can most likely be proven by experimental research and statistics. However, it has been decided by a group that these assumptions are not to be discussed and/or not to be used as argument, hence are "politically incorrect".
Now THERE you have an invalid assumption: that the reason there are less women in certain positions results from them being DENIED a career, rather than them not have interest in that career, or them being less able to do it.
With that assumption, the whole issue is becoming a negative one and there is no reason to go that path before having evaluated the other possible reasons.
Yep. My #2 daughter is a chemist, _head_ of the City of Phoenix Water Laboratories. Wonder how she got there? Not because of political correctness, but due to her skill. (She only has a bachelor's degree... talked periodically of going back and getting a business management degree... but now she's already there ;-)
bitrex, rickman, bloggs, dcaster, slowman... cretins on the left, only capable of parroting the SJW BS. The most totally clueless collection of "males" I've ever seen. ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I'm looking for work... see my website.
Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
I missed "hondgm" >:-} ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I'm looking for work... see my website.
Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
very sensible
very foolish. Engineers & scientists don't do their thing because we were encouraged, whatever that means, we do it because we chose to. And frankly people's ideas of what might encourage us are mostly comically stupid.
NT
not the point anyone has been making afaik. Several posts yet to read though.
NT
They are not assumptions. Any classical test of spatial reasoning or 3D awareness will show a significant bias in favour of male brains. eg.
Conversely tests of empathy favour female brains. I can't find a working version of the simple online test that goes with the original article but a version of the text is online here:
No problem with that - although the problem seems to be that not all that many women are interested in either playing chess, maths or hard sciences. There is self selection already in secondary schools.
The ones that are have to be better than the men to even get a look in.
It is reasonable to try and tap all the available talent male or female but it does not alter the fact that there are observable differences between male and female brains where problem solving is concerned. Not all males have male brains and not all females have female brains gender neutral versions of the work use systematising and empathy as the axes.
The variations between individuals is huge so it is a small signal in a rather noisy background. But there are still measurable differences.
Pretty much what all recruitment aptitude tests try to do. If you want someone good at problem solving you test them against sample problems.
Modern scientific instruments are getting good enough to actually do that although they can still be beaten by the very best trained Mk I human noses (but they are rare, expensive and in short supply).
I have met a lot of maths geniuses in my time.
I have known some very good women engineers although they were seldom promoted and weaker male candidates would too often end up more senior.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
Google has become evil. I think we'll cut back on our adwords budget.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
50 years ago probably 75% of programmers were women, when it was ten times harder and paid 10 times less. But the author makes the assertion that women aren't actually any good at the job because of biology, and they that hiring practices need to take that "natural inferiority" into account. That's what he says.
Half of your advertising budget is wasted. Do you know which half?
He cherry-picked a bunch of assertions and presented them as if he were the world's leading authority and that they were indisputable facts. What "most likely" could be proven by someone, somewhere is completely irrelevant.
If you're going to more-or-less call out your management on mismanaging the company, and more or less call X% of your co-workers incompetent, then you'd better have a little something more substantial to go on than fluffy just-so stories, or you're going to find yourself out.
Good grief you'd think these right-wing coder brahs believe they actually own the company the way they behave, firing off these smug memos where they call out a bunch of their fellow employees and managers. Oh thank you very much Your Majesty, may I be in charge for a while?
They fired a PITA employee who was bad for their PR. If that's "evil" then I guess just about every corporation is guilty.
The irony is that the writer actually said that Google's HR department needed to be more ruthless.
They took one look at who their male counterparts would be and they ran away.
Its possible that he knew his days were already numbered, so he decided to write the document after the fact, to appear to be fired for writing the document.
-- Kevin Aylward
I read the email. It was simply a reasoned argument as to how and why things are the way they are, from an Evolutionary standpoint.
It was no way whatsoever was a document that was trying to "perpetuate gender stereotypes".
Richard Dawkins still gets the same shit today. Simply sting that, well females chose more on quality, males on quantity is enough to get all lefties after his blood simply for stating facts, with no suggesting that he ever argues that it should be that way, ethically.
Like trying getting a female to beat the best male runners.
-- Kevin Aylward
Speaking as a lefty - or at least as someone who Kevin Aylward sees as a lefty - this isn't the kind of statement that makes my blood boil.
It is superficial nonsense with very little relevance to objective reality, but seeing somebody spouting dumb cliches is too routine to generate much of a reaction.
You do have to pick your sport. In marathon swimming, women are already ahead.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Jim doesn't seem to have looked in the mirror recently. Of course Jim-out-of-touch-with-reality-Thompson doesn't have any real idea of quite how clueless he is, and isn't showing much sign that he'll ever learn enough to realise it.
And of course dcaster - Dan - isn't of the left.
He's got the same kind of unrealistically high opinion of his general knowledge that John Larkin has, probably for much the same reason - he doesn't read anything that might threaten his self-satisfaction.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
The "reasoned argument" wasn't at all scientific, he just made statements like women are better at this, men are better at that, and tacked on "on average" to ever statement just to give the usual stereotypes plausible deniability as if they were scientific.
Cherry-picked a bunch of "science facts" that aren't at all settled science and presents them like he's the world's foremost expert on the topic and privy to God's truth on the matter. He actually writes that way on several other topics as well besides specifically gender, including human sexual behavior and economics as if he is the expert.
Hey, maybe men are better at programming than women for strictly biological reasons. I honestly have no idea. He doesn't either, but that didn't stop him from writing 10 pages like he was the authority on the topic. It was a smug, condescending diatribe that very much sounded like it was written by a self-absorbed 20-something American tech guy who spends his free time reading old pick up artist blogs from 2002.
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