Ferrite rod, side by side or in line

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Hi

Trying to get good coupling between to ferrite rods with a winding on each

I tested with side by side, like this:

http://www.n9ses.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/CAM00316.jpg

Compared to aligning the 2 ferrite rods inline, end to end

I have tested it and get better coupling end to end

But I would like to do some what if experiments, so would like to simulate it, including the H field line distribution  

Any recommendations?

Cheers

Klaus  


Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 11:31:35 AM UTC-10, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
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The coupling is between the two wires. I guess the ferrite was designed
in so the high frequencies are not coupled. You can wind both wires
on one ferrite rod. That is a transformer with low pass. Test high
frequency rejection spectral character.  

Al

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
On Saturday, October 13, 2018 at 2:31:35 PM UTC-7, Klaus Kragelund wrote:

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But, end-to-end means it radiates over a long range (and picks up interfering signals
from a similar range).   Side-by-side would have less field leakage at distance.
Signal is one thing, signal/(noise+ interference) ratio is the usual thing to optimize.

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line

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You do know that a complete MAGNETIC circuit is reqired for good coupling.
  With two rods, you have two separated magnetic cicuits and any coupling  
between them will be weak, at best.

  Two windings, same core gets you a transformer.

  All you are currently doing is using one to "sniff" the other.

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
On Sunday, October 14, 2018 at 2:27:51 PM UTC+2, snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote:
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Yes, correct. I am transferring power accross a plastic barrier, so do not have the luxury to have the windings on the same core. I will be running in resonance, to reduce leakage effect problems

Cheers

Klaus

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
mandag den 15. oktober 2018 kl. 00.39.44 UTC+2 skrev Klaus Kragelund:
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why not two pieces of U shaped ferrite?

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
U shaped would be better for sure, but I need to keep cost ultra low and U shape will probably not be cheap or easy to mount

I have looked into spiral PCB turns and a planar ferrite, but production costs is high (needs glue etc)

Cheers

Klaus  

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 10:18:48 AM UTC+11, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
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Ferrite pot core halves could do the same job. Some come with a hole down the centre, and you can clamp them together with a single nylon bolt.

The classic clamp for RM cores is a metal spring clip, but that's not nice if you want lots of isolation. A non-conducting nylon cable tie could apply the same kind of clamping force.

RM cores come with plastic coil formers, which make them easy to wind. The regular off-the shelf parts aren't designed for isolation, but people who make high-voltage inverters are more creative.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in

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And NOT deliver the isolation he is looking for.  Learn to read entire  
threads, asshole, not just your cursory glance stupid shit.

  Pot cores are small.  Winding segregation is not easy to the level he is  
looking for.

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 3:29:33 PM UTC+11, snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote:
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Some pot cores are small. Others are larger

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2138461.pdf

gives quite a lot of space within which to spread out the windings.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in news:2a01f33e-6496-40b9-b3ee-2b65b44e8b77
@googlegroups.com:

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You obviously have no grasp of what his coupling/isolation circumstance is.

  You lack common sense too, because it is easily garnered by simply  
reading the thread.  Unless you are a sloman abject idiot.

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in

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There are plenty of hv multisegmented bobbins.  And "regular off the  
shelf" is more like straight out of the catalog.

You have been out of the channel for far too long.  My hv job was 12 years  
ago and I know more about it than you ever will.

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 3:32:42 PM UTC+11, snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote:
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The catalogs contain parts that aren't widely stocked. Broad-line distributors like element-14/Newark do keep stuff on the shelf for same day delivery.
  
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You might, but evidence you present here isn't all that persuasive.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in news:9bb27510-a977-43cc-a5ff-cffa030d28a6
@googlegroups.com:

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  No shit.

  Many times they have to fresh press both the ferrite cores and the  
bobbins when a REAL company with a REAL order calls up.

  You really have no grasp of how business works.

  Many things are "COTM", but still require minimum orders and may or may  
not drive a new production run, which would generate both the ordered stock  
and a bit for the shelves.

  Today's businesses shelves are not stocked heavily as end of year audits  
do not like remaining stocks.

  Again, you have been away too long, billy.  It shows.  Take your decades  
old 555 hater mentality and go away from here too.

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 10:14:21 PM UTC+11, DecadentLinux...@decaden
ce.org wrote:
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Makes it difficult to design their stuff in, if you can't get hold of a han
dful to build a prototype or two.
  
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Perhaps the business I was in was lower volume than you seem to be used to.
 We did know - and sometimes used - some specialised suppliers for ferrite  
parts, but everybody was much happier if you designed in parts that could b
e bought off the shelf from broad-line distributors
  
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ck  
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Maybe you could go back to telling your grandmother how to suck eggs. She h
as to put up with you - I don't.

<snip>

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney
  

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in

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There are almost always sample qtys that do not have a great effect on end  
year audits on hand.  Grow up, even your nit picks are lame.

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 12:42:54 AM UTC+11, snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote:
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Grow up. That kind of sample quantity has to be negotiated out of the sales representatives.

Buying stuff from a broad line distributor is a lot quicker, and pretty much guarantees that the stuff will be there for purchasing to just-in-time-buy when manufacturing needs it. You seem to have lead a sheltered life.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in

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  You are an abject idiot.  Sales reps?  You are a clueless twerp, at  
best.

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 10:54:45 PM UTC+11, snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote:
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That was how it worked for us. You do seem to have worked in a strange environment, or maybe you were kept locked away so your silly ideas didn't embarrass your employers.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: Ferrite rod, side by side or in line
snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in

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There is typically and historically no such animal in the High Voltage  
Power Supply segment.  Every customer and every application is typically  
uniquie and there are next to zero off-the-shelf supplies around.  The  
company I worked for started some small form factor, PCB mountable modules  
for 4kV and less, but real supplies like a triple output anode supply for  
the huge three gun projectors that used to be used on the 747s are quite  
custom.  As are those that go up on weather balloons bought by the NOAA.
and those in use on Geiger counters by the Navy nukes fleet wide.

  Essentially each design must be made at the time of the order as the  
customer design, load conditions, and form factor requisites are always  
different.

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