faster-than-light.us

Launching shortly with the ultimate FTL experiment science breaker...

Reply to
admformeto
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Oh those crazy ass neutrinos :P

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I don't deal with neutrinos. Just electrons.

Reply to
D from BC

The interesting fact about the Italian neutrinos may be that they were travelling within earth's gravitational field, which Einstein sees as curved space-time. The neutrinons from the 1987a supernova did most of their - much longer - trip in empty (much less curved) space-time.

It's going to be interesting to see how the follow-up experiments pan out.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Reply to
Bill Sloman

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Yes. And American neutrinos travel against Earth's gravitational field which Einstein sees as flat space-time. Thus the Flat Earth enthusiasts.

Reply to
John S

Oh those crazy ass neutrinos :P

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I don't deal with neutrinos. Just electrons.

Reply to
admformeto

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Launching shortly with the ultimate FTL experiment science breaker...

Reply to
admformeto

It was x-posted from sci.neutronics.design.politics :(

H.

Reply to
Howard Eisenhauer

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--
All they'll show is that particles which travel faster in a medium
than light can will emit Cerenkov radiation.
Reply to
John Fields

FAILED!! It should be flying now if you launched 3 or more days from now..

Reply to
Robert Baer

.

....

Perhaps not. The neutrino has no electrical charge, nor any electrical structure.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Reply to
Bill Sloman

On a sunny day (Sat, 22 Oct 2011 16:29:52 -0500) it happened John S wrote in :

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Right, and Billy was wrong anyways, those neutrinos are not Italian, they originate at CERN. From

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The CERN sites, as an international facility, are officially under neither Swiss nor French jurisdiction.

Anyways I have read as many strange argument as you can imagine against those international neutrinos being faster than light.

The whole issue is just like somebody throwing a stone to a bunch of parrots on a rock, they all fly away shouting 'Einstein Einstein'.

Deafening sound. Not even everybody at CERN (half of them I think) wanted to sign the published results of fear to be called a crackpot and have their 'career' damaged I suppose. With that sort of attitude, and the particle physicists never did anything useful since the H bomb, and lets get this in the right perspective, this is (CERN) all about finding a better weapon, truck loads of Einstein parroting physisicks were cloned in the schools after WW2 just to do that.. in my view CERN is only good for bomb shelters, something we will desperately need with darklord Obama steering the world towards an East West confrontation, a nuclear one. I have recently concluded that democrats are even worse, or just as bad as repuggblicons, and a prime example of the human species. lemmings, as this will lead to the mosquitos ruling the earth, probably then feeding on smaller animals, and there will be no more insecticides and insect lights and harbour freight bug zappers once humanity has used that H bomb in quantity. OK, but FTL? There is no reason other than some dogma, that something cannot move FTL. But Einstein, being Jewish, and they walk around with a big black hat thinking that gods loves them for it, and have their rules in stone, was brought up with religious dogma, so for him dogma was the same as truth. Anyways, before the music of the exploding nuculear bombs starts, some prelude perhaps soon, would it not be nice to see this FTL neutrino experiment confirmed, just to see those beautiful rainbow colors of parrot feathers raining down and enhancing the scientific roads.

Reply to
Jan Panteltje

.

.....

originate at CERN.

ther Swiss nor French jurisdiction.

But the ones that got detected had made it to Italy. Neutrinos aren't complicated enough to have an individual identity. let alone nationality, so the ones that got detected in Italy are Italian neutrinos in the same sense that rice grown in Italy is Italian rice.

hose international

ots on a rock,

Not exactly. The scientific commentattors aren't parrots, and if you knew enough to undertand what they were saying, you'd be able to perceive that there's more being said than "Einstein Einstein".

ished results

.

Controversy in the neighbourhood does make life more complicated for thise not directly involved, and if you aren't directly involved you aren't going to profit from it.

g useful since the H bomb,

ing a better weapon,

fter WW2 just to do that..

Dream on.

Bizarre misconception.

As dogmas goes, Einstein's theories of relativity are persuasive and useful. Jan Panteltje doesn't know much, and isn't in a position to appreciate this.

nking that gods loves them for it,

r him dogma was the same as truth.

Scarcely. Einstein was unreasonably fond of Spinoza.

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and Spinoza was excommunicated by his Jewish congregation. I think you had better think that one out again.

elude perhaps soon,

to see those beautiful

ic roads.

It would certainly be nice to see it repeated. At the moment we have two bits of physical evidence that don't really tie up - the neutrinos from the supernova 1987a got here at about the same time as the optical phonons, while Cern's neutrino's got to Italy some 60 nanoseconds earlier than optical photons could have managed (which would have corresponded to the supernova neutrinos getting here four years earlier than the optical photons). If the local result is real - rather than due to say a local reel of 18 metres of neglected coxial cable - there's some interesting physics to be elucidated.

I wouldn't expect to see too many parrot feathers, but then I know too much to share Jan's uninhibited imaginations.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Reply to
Bill Sloman

Actually it can't do that because it doesn't interact enough (possibly at all) with electromagnetism that is why they mostly go through the Earth all the time. It takes a supernova implosion to produce enough of them to be really noticeable (at close range an extinction event).

What has been conjectured is that neutrinos because they are so unwilling to interact with ordinary matter they see a slightly lower refractive index of the true vacuum compared to electromagnetic radiation which at the shortest timescales does see the quantum background of virtual photons in the normal vacuum of space.

A couple of Nobel prize winners have computed the properties of the neutrinos if they truly did cover the distance FTL then they should have been losing energy along the way by creating electron positron pairs. This tends to suggest that the original experiment may have a systematic error or that there is something new going on here. Time will tell when other labs have had a chance to test this independently.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

Me:

Dr Slowman:

I presume you mean photons? I also think it spelled is neutrinos.

Almost all knowing, well the difference between infinity and almost is 'quite a bit[1]'.

[1] Not to be confused with the 'bit', as used in computing. OTOH it could be the most significant bit or the sign bit that needed flipping in your case :-)

Anyways, 'Italian grown neutrinos', would you say that co[s]mic rays detected in the Netherlands were Dutch co[s]mic rays? I'd rather name those after the origin, 'sun neutrinos'. Same for neutrinos from the sun, would not call those 'earth neutrinos'.

No imagination no progress, no progress -> stone age. We will then all die of global cooling when the sun goes out, and we still live in grass huts, with Obama as chief.

Yea, I have read that stuff you wrote about the sun swallowing the earth first, we can wait that out on a further away planet, but to reach the next star takes some more. You can think that in the universe, that part we know and call universe, with such an incredible amount of starts, galaxies even, how significant we are, like a worm on a tree leave. Passing with time, maybe become a butterfly and fly away, but in the greater picture of things very very temporary occurrence. So, no way to know everything, it is all to investigate and play,. extrapolate and enjoy, it is probably going somewhere, but where you do not even know.

Reply to
Jan Panteltje

Perhaps not. The neutrino has no electrical charge, nor any electrical structure.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Reply to
admformeto

I was thinking in terms of the difference between not all that much and sod-all, but from your point of view, "not all that much" is still a big step up.

They are certainly Dutch-detected.

But how could you be certain that they all came from the sun, or the earth? There's no room on a neutrino for a bar code.

Your ignorance is comprehensive. An economy based on renewable energy sources - albiet the sun isn't renewable, but it will outlast our species - doesn't have to be any less energy intensive than the one we've got now. Energy might be a bit more expensive - in the short term - than it is at the moment, but not enough to making living in grass huts an attractive option.

first,

We - or more likely, our successors - have got some 5 billion years to work on the mechanics of that emigration.

It's certainly not practical to know everything, or even an appreciable part of what we - collectively - know now. You fall a good deal short of knowing what a technically trained adult ought to know, and your "extrapolations" are mere stupidities.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Reply to
Bill Sloman

But it has no electrical charge, and it is being detected. The first experimental detection scheme was published in 1956

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and relied on the reaction

{Energy}(>1.8 MeV) + p + \bar{\nu_e} -> n + e^+

which is to say an energetic anti-neutrino hitting a proton and converting it to a neutron and a positron; the positron subsequent collision with an electron was what was actually measured.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Reply to
Bill Sloman

Looks like a lot of assumptions and indirections to to claim that. How much theory of neutrino is based on Einstein's theory of relativity?

But it has no electrical charge, and it is being detected. The first experimental detection scheme was published in 1956

formatting link

and relied on the reaction

{Energy}(>1.8 MeV) + p + \bar{\nu_e} -> n + e^+

which is to say an energetic anti-neutrino hitting a proton and converting it to a neutron and a positron; the positron subsequent collision with an electron was what was actually measured.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Reply to
admformeto

.

.....

originate at CERN.

ther Swiss nor French jurisdiction.

hose international

ots on a rock,

ished results

.

g useful since the H bomb,

ing a better weapon,

fter WW2 just to do that..

s repuggblicons,

ppers

nking that gods loves them for it,

r him dogma was the same as truth.

elude perhaps soon,

to see those beautiful

ic roads.

Too late, the world ended Friday.

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Fortunately, I smuggled 4 Harbor Freight bug zappers into the afterlife. And no, you can't have them.

-- Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

Ah, just like photons and neutrons can't be detected.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

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