Facial hair

Well, they think that none of their designs are hairy..

It's a known fact that the majority of HR departments are pogonophobic.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Seriously? This comes as a surprise?

Tatoos, chomping gum in the interview, wearing jeans to the interview, long hair with lice in it.... these are all strange biases of old geezers too. Sounds like it might be pretty easy to get a job for a young engineer these days if they just set aside some of their judgements of the older generation and just abide by the older guys ideas long enough to get the job and prove to them that they can do the job. The old geezers probably won't care about the beard too much after that.

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We were interviewing for a production technician to get a junior engineering job in our lab. The one guy was a shoo in. He came to the interview in jeans and was buddies with a lot of the people there. The next guy was brought in out of corporate obligation because he applied too. It was just a formality. He went out to the barber (he had looong hair) and cut his hair and bought a suit and showed up ready to go. The guy with the long hair did have a good record. It posed a tough dilemma for everyone as to who to choose. In the end the decision went to the guy who showed he wanted the job the most. He still works as a much more senior engineer to this day.

Do you bring straw men to your interviews as well?

Tim

-- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website:

Seriously? This comes as a surprise?

Tatoos, chomping gum in the interview, wearing jeans to the interview, long hair with lice in it.... these are all strange biases of old geezers too. Sounds like it might be pretty easy to get a job for a young engineer these days if they just set aside some of their judgements of the older generation and just abide by the older guys ideas long enough to get the job and prove to them that they can do the job. The old geezers probably won't care about the beard too much after that.

I knew someone who was getting somewhat desperate (family to feed, etc) who was advised, ever so strongly, to remove his long-standing beard by his headhunter. Come the interview, nearly every person at the company had a beard. He was rather annoyed (much more committed to it than I've ever been - I get 5 o'clock shadow at noon when I'm shaving, but I also get tired of dealing with the beard and shave it off on a regular basis.) For him is was a real crisis. It also reflected his headhunter simply being at one with the majority of HR departments (who also have many other biases that are not really useful to their employers) rather than having any knowledge of the place he was being headhunted to...

Also refer to Carlin, G. D. P. (1937-2008) regarding beard (Lenin, et al) .vs. whiskers (G. Hayes,, M. Woolley, et al) - a fine vintage bit of delightful Americana...

Good engineers live in the world as it is -- not as they wish it to be.

Huh? One can even become president with a beard.

There are some companies who will probably never understand how to pick the best engineers. This is also one of the reasons why smaller enterprises are often the ones who provide the real technological leadership to our country.

To paraphrase GBS:

The reasonable engineer adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable engineer.

Image matters, like it or not.

The academic department I work in has a serious dress code.

The department head of another department questioned my sanity while working in his machine shop in dress pants and a dress shirt. He me asked if I was rich enough to ruin good clothes or just a fool. Chemists wear lab coats, but rarely work on machines and other gear. So the rules are stricter. It was explained to him by his staff before I could even chime in that I was obeying the CHEM rules and did a pretty good job of not ruining shirts while milling. I'll live with ruining the odd JC Penny shirt to keep the job. BTW the light blue 25$ JC Penny dress shirt cleans up well for some reason, probably the mordant used in fixing the dye resists grease. They last for years.

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The job before this was training students in a computed tomography plant. Same rules, wear dress clothes to roll around on the floor under a dirty CT machine. Jeans and sneakers not allowed even in the lab sessions. The students wore jeans, but instructors ruined clothes on a daily basis. Again, follow the rules to keep the job. I quickly learned to buy New Balance's hybrid dressy sneaker-dress shoe combo in black. Its worth it and comfortable.

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The one that amuses me most was a interview with a fortune 100 company's senior division manager. I got told to take off my tie, but keep the suit on, because ties "Were so 10 years ago and out of style, why did you show up wearing one to our interview?." Not many engineers would hire me if I showed up looking like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. I just can not pull off the jacket, no tie look.

---------------------------------- I know one VERY skilled laser technician who wonders why he cannot get jobs at age 30. The very long pony-tail might have something to do with it.

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Such is life. Besides, I think long beards make you go bald, you need to lose hair so the head can still reject the required amount of heat.

Laughing out loud. (I'm a old fart, no acronyms/abbreviations in non- technical communications allowed.)

Steve

I once met an engineer employed by a really major company.. he not only had a beard, but piercings and wore a dress. He must have been perceived as a REALLY good engineer.

All deterioration, too, by the same argument. GBS was logical only when the conclusions suited him.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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I think all the places I've been the easy way to tell the difference between those who made stuff and those who powerpoint or finance was to see if the wore jeans or a suit

-Lasse

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it's back in fashion you just need a fixie bike and you'll fit right in with all the hipsters :P

don't remember who said it:

hipsters are young guys with broken shavers that dress like tramps and smell like Christina Aguilera

-Lasse

I could do the first two but I don't want to smell like Christina. If I have a smell on me it's usually of the genre "Chain and Sprocket Oil", "Chevron SAE 5W30", "Kester 8806", or "Heavy Amperage Capacitor Blow-Out" :-).

Oh, and right now I am wearing a flannel shirt and a rather worn pair of jeans. Because I occasionally have to fire up the drill press, saw something, or cut metal.

"Phhtt for Men, by Joerg" has a ring to it.

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Yeah but what does the "Phhtt" actually smell like? I guess as long as it's not a "Phhtt by a man"....

And how do you pronounce Joerg... In my mind it rhymes with Borg. or is it two syllables like Georg 'auf Deutsch'

My wife now makes sure I'm presentable in public. "You can't wear that shirt to work." "Yes dear", hangs head and shuffles back to the closet.

George H.

Oh and is GBS Shaw?

:-) I would guess a mixture of decomposing epoxy and phenolic. Had some of that the other day, tested a circuit board to destruction. The inner layers darken first, you can see through the unplated sections, then the area erupts in nasty blackened epoxy goo and magic smoke ;-)

I've always read it as "Yerg". I'm sure he's heard it a million ways...

Tim