Even Chinese Are Rejecting Mediocre American University Education

He started a business to make money. You often need to hire people to do that.

Which are perfectly reasonable things to want to do but gee whiz not exactly deserving of a ticker-tape parade and award ceremony.

Reply to
bitrex
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I don't think so at all. Besides, a formal apprenticeship program _does_ contain book-learning stuff because of the trade school requirement. Without passing that, no journeyman grade, end of the line. When you want to go up from there (they call that next level Meister) there's a whole lot more book-learning. The latter is required if you want to run your own contractor business and especially so when taking in apprentices. Gives you some teaching credentials as well.

What is not so great in countries like Germany is that this has also resulted in the formation of guilds and they engage in hardcore turf protection, fiefdoms and such. For example, an EE who has a much broader and intimate knowledge of what is safe and what isn't was (is?) not allowed to start such a business.

Well, that stuff is nice but it usually does not provide adequate income for a family.

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Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

To me it is. Especially with such a track record. There are lots of people who talk all day long about job creation and then there are those actually doing it.

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Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

I know a bunch of young guys here in the US who went to trade school; automotive, electrician, HVAC, and so forth. Some of them do okay, some of them don't. Unfortunately for a young man here in the US in 2k17 while learning a trade is certainly a better path than just a high school education, it's definitely not the straightforward ticket to a middle-class existence that it once may have been. Work is usually available, but often inconsistent and job security is pretty much nil.

The disability rehab offices are also full of unfortunate guys who were able to work a trade like construction or auto repair until they were in their mid 40s or early 50s and their bodies just couldn't do it anymore. What now? They don't have enough to retire and without any other marketable skills at 50 years old they're in no better position than a skilless 20-something, probably worse.

At least in New England on average the people I knew from the old days who went to school for liberal arts/humanities are doing better at this point, myself included. I didn't begin studying electronics until most engineering students would've already graduated, like 24 or 25.

I know enough about my own personality and youth that it would've been hopeless to try to teach me electronics at 17 or 18 as if I were some prodigy who'd been doing it since I was a child, I certainly would've flunked.

I took EM and physics courses as an adult student in my late 20s and did OK - I found the most valuable skill to have to approach it was _reading comprehension_ as well as being able to "think creatively", not raw math ability, and I like to think my liberal arts education prepared me well on that front.

The USA is a bad place to start a family for a man my age (mid-late 30s) for a number of reasons. One of them simply being bad demographics - there are too many single men vs. single women in the 20 - 40 age bracket. Why you think there are so many guys here pissed off all the time?

Reply to
bitrex

It actually can provide enough income for a family, but not the historical American Dream-type of family - big suburban house in a prime suburb, 2.5 kids, two luxury vehicles in the garage, debt up to the eyeballs.

Reply to
bitrex

Nil? Talk to some business owners. For example, if a guy has an automotive certificate that includes electronics he has really good job security. Shops bill $130/hour for these guys and their take-home pay is quite fat. Some of them take home north of $50 of that. With nurses it is more extreme where many of them make way more than a good engineer.

A nephew of a friend has worked in all sorts of jobs and locations, no special training, no college degree, worked mostly according to what he wanted at that particular time. He always made good money so he had the luxury to take off a few months at a time. He has half a dozen standing offers along the lines of "If you ever come back to this area, please, please talk to me. I'll hire you back on the spot". His secret? Simple: He immediately passes drugs tests, has no criminal history, has a friendly demeanor, good work ethics and ... no tattoos. All that often disqualifies more than 50% of potential candidates.

No kidding, this happened to a neighbor as a hiring manager: Candidate shows up in a T-shirt. A bit sloppy but let's probe further, the neighbor thought. The text on it read "People suck". "Well, have a great day, good bye" ... "But, but I thought I'd have an interview" ... "You just had one".

Well, duh. Everyone should be smart enough to know that work which requires physical fitness will not last forever. Either you've got to save enouigh to retire early of have a plan B. It's like with sports players. The smart ones all have a plan B and I personally worked with some who were in their plan B phase. Because that's where they oretty much all are when 40 or older.

Auto repair is not as physically exhausting. I know guys who did that up into their 70's. They were the go-to guys in the shop. "I don't know where that knock might come from. Ask Chuck, he always knows".

Full agreement here.

There I have my doubts.

100% disagreement. That is the age when I immigrated into the US and compared to other countries I know well enough the US is the absolute best. At least during times where we have an ok government. You and I just seem to have opposing opinions what constitutes an ok government.

There are only a few and the reasons do not have to be work related. A rocky marriage, for example, can really put a damper on a guy's mood. So can excessive debt which most people get into through their own fault and they know it.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

Something that might not be apparent to someone who didn't grow up here is that my experience of being a young person in America is that while America has, at least superficially, a youth-obsessed and youth-protective culture, my experience of youth is that on average American children are treated quite badly by the culture that claims to love them.

Reply to
bitrex

e US

will find

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Johmn Larkin has massive self-belief. It lead him to start up several compa nies - which failed - before he hit a formula that worked for him.

He's got persistence (which comes from massive self-belief) and he's found his niche. His university training helped, but if he'd got more out of it h e might not be cutting the corners that make his business work.

That's not how universities are supposed to work, but if you want to run on e as a diploma mill, it's easier to spoon-feed your students than it is to teach them how to learn for themselves.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

Wow! What a bitter outlook on life. My dad was a foreman at a corrugated box factory for 25 years before he retired. We had a nice three bedroom home that was on a half acre. It had a full basement, and a detached two car garage. We always had a nice car, but dad saw no reason to buy a new car every year like the people he worked with. We were never in debt, and dad paid off the mortgage almost ten years early. This was in the '60s and '70s when the economy wasn't very stable. It was a nice place to live, and even the dog was happy.

Reply to
Michael A Terrell

Then Reagan came to power, and the the well-off started rigging the system so that all the growth in the economy ended up in the pockets of the top 1% of the income distribution.

Thomas Piketty seems to be the first economist to blow the whistle on this, but his work has been widely followed up

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Income inequality has become a popular subject amongst economists - people with high incomes have always liked it but they haven't so much studied it as worked on it to make it larger in their favour.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

I'm not sure what's "bitter" about my statement. Many Americans in 2017 certainly do try to live a life beyond their means like the one I mentioned and end up desperately unhappy for the attempt.

Sounds like your dad was smart and didn't try to "keep up with the Joneses" for the most part, which was my point - it's perfectly possible to live a happy life on a literature or art student salary even in the

21st century, you just have to have realistic expectations of what material things you're going to have.

All that stuff is mostly tangential to whether a man is happy with his life, or not.

But one big difference 40 years on is that a three bedroom home with a two car garage on half an acre is out of price range in many areas for most young(er) people. I just checked online what the cheapest housing for sale is in the Boston suburb I currently live in and it's $359,000 and it's not even a full home it's a condo.

You can do much better in say Nebraska or Oklahoma. But in most urban areas (where the jobs are) homes and cars are not assets like they once were, they're financial liabilities. You'll almost never get the value back that you put into 'em.

Reply to
bitrex

Right, part of my point was that in 2k17 to even afford a three bedroom home with a full basement, two car garage, on a half acre in most urban areas of the US you have to be maybe not 1% but at least in the top 5% of earners.

That is _not_ a 30-something middle-class factory worker's home anymore, that is a 30-something wealthy tech bro's home.

Reply to
bitrex

It's like, you know I could pull up a bunch of real-estate listings of homes in my area that fit that description and it would be no problem at all to find several with price tags pushing 1 million.

Reply to
bitrex

I see many more who don't waste money, or care about those who do. I also run into a lot of homeless Veterans who are trying to find work, and a home. It seems like you are running with the wrong crowd.

I live on a half acre in Central Florida. A three bedroom house, a four car detached garage, a one bedroom cottage, and three outbuildings that I use for workshops. I bought it 18 years ago for $37,000. The last time that I checked, it was worth over $100,000

Reply to
Michael A Terrell

Well, they're not _my_ crowd. I just happen to live in the area. :-)

But statistics on American's financial situation on average bear out what I'm saying. E.g:

Congrats? I wasn't old enough to buy a beer 18 years ago, much less a home.

Reply to
bitrex

They don't want an education, they want to be buddies with what they

I don't know about other companies but what you describe is exactly the American way. Take risks, repeatedly if necessary, and make something for yourself and for others. It is one of the reasons I am living here.

What corners? Have you ever visited his company or is that just one of your premature conclusions? I have been there and it's a solid business. Not sure how they do it but they manage to be profitable in one of the most expensive locations we have in the US.

That is what students told me how it worked where they studied. Including lots of ivy league places. No diploma mills.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

That's kind of how course assignments in the liberal arts/humanities work. The professor gives out a list of assigned reading, you read it, you get an assignment to write about what you read, you hand it in, and you're graded on what you wrote and how well you wrote about it.

We read a lot; for many courses you were expected to be reading a ~300 page novel or autobiography or nonfiction book or whatever every week to two weeks.

Reply to
bitrex

That's a sad way of learning. The academic director of the RF Institute was very different. No required books and stuff. Yeah, there was a course script which had to be worked off but other than that he was down to earth. He stood in front of the auditorium "Now here is the schematic of a radio receiver from XYZ corporation and here is the real thing wit the enclosure removed. Let's see how we can optimize that in terms of cost and maybe even performance, shall we?".

One day the professor, he and the pinch-hitter got sick, some bad virus was going around. I worked there 19h/week to supplement my budget. The academic director said "Joerg, I feel terrible, have to go home and cure this. You want to hold tomorrow's session in the auditorium?" ... "Ahm, ahem ... well, ok". Had to go to the bathroom first, fast.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

Why sad? The arts and humanities are in some ways more challenging subjects to excel in than STEM. And like any subject you also lean by doing; if you want to be a writer then reading good writing, and then writing your own material is what you have to do to become good at it.

There are plenty of child math/physics/electronics/code monkey prodigies whose abilities outstrip all but the top adult students in their field. How many child novelist prodigies are there? Could a child design the artwork for the Sistine Chapel or sculpt the David?

Reply to
bitrex

It would be better if they were more free in picking the material. Just like I did not learn my trade of analog circuit design at the university. I learned it as a ham radio operator who built a lot of his stuff from scratch. When I wanted an RF power amp I built one. When I wanted a bigger one I built that, too. No professor told me to, I did.

In the field of analog I have yet to encounter one.

Plenty. I does require true talent though, I don't think one can learn that (and certainly not yours truly):

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--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

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