EV charging price

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restaurants and stores refused, in fear of jumping their breakers.

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I have to charge to 90% in order to get to the next station.

Ok, I am not used to anyone specifying amps on DC fast charging since the o nly significant number is the watts.

Please try to get your terminology correct. When you use it incorrectly it is not always obvious what the error is. Above you are mixing watts and w atthours. When you say 8000 watts per hour, I think you mean 8000 kWh/h wh ich is the same as 8000 watts, period. So that would be 133 Wh/min.

Here's what I get for your chart. It won't fit, but maybe you can view it somehow...

Per Min Per min Per kWh $0.15 $0.05 $0.15 SoC Amps kW kWh Added Time Total Time Total Charge Cost per kWh Total Charg e Cost per kWh Cost per mile

90% 20 8 2.4 18 18 $2.70 $1.13 $0.90 $0.53 $0.16 80% 25 10 4.8 14.4 32.4 $4.86 $1.01 $1.62 $0.49 $0.15 70% 30 12 7.2 12 44.4 $6.66 $0.93 $2.22 $0.46 $0.14 60% 40 16 9.6 9 53.4 $8.01 $0.83 $2.67 $0.43 $0.13 50% 50 20 12 7.2 60.6 $9.09 $0.76 $3.03 $0.40 $0.12 40% 70 28 14.4 5.1 65.7 $9.86 $0.68 $3.29 $0.38 $0.11 30% 90 36 16.8 4 69.7 $10.46 $0.62 $3.49 $0.36 $0.11

Rick C.

-+ Get 6 months of free supercharging -+ Tesla referral code -

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Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit
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l restaurants and stores refused, in fear of jumping their breakers.

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. I have to charge to 90% in order to get to the next station.

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only significant number is the watts.

it is not always obvious what the error is. Above you are mixing watts and watthours. When you say 8000 watts per hour, I think you mean 8000 kWh/h which is the same as 8000 watts, period. So that would be 133 Wh/min.

Opps, got myself confused. 8000 watt hours per hour I should have said whi ch is just 8000 watts. Or maybe you meant 8000 watts for an hour which is a bit redundant, but whatever.

Rick C.

++ Get 6 months of free supercharging ++ Tesla referral code -
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Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

Business, the American way

Reply to
bitrex

he

nna

ke

ars

at,

ptions

cy.

l restaurants and stores refused, in fear of jumping their breakers.

n
s

uite

arging

ng gas

. I have to charge to 90% in order to get to the next station.

d

re

only significant number is the watts.

it is not always obvious what the error is. Above you are mixing watts and watthours. When you say 8000 watts per hour, I think you mean 8000 kWh/h which is the same as 8000 watts, period. So that would be 133 Wh/min.

t somehow...

rge Cost per kWh Cost per mile

I don't understand your chart just like you don't understand mine.

Basically,

At 30% SOC, charging is around 400V 90A or around 36KW. Since it takes arou nd 300 WattHour per mile, 36000 Watts per hour is 600 watts per minute or 0 .5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.075 per mile. Gasol ine costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 0.5x or $1.

5/gal gas.

Somewhere in between...

At 90% SOC, charging drop to around 400V 20A or around 8KW. Since it takes around 300 WattHour per mile, 8000 Watts per hour is 133 watts per minute o r 2.5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.40 per mile. Gas oline costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 3x or $9/ gal gas.

Reply to
edward.ming.lee

On Wednesday, January 30, 2019 at 7:11:48 PM UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wr ote:

the

gonna

like

cars

that,

et

options

ency.

ral restaurants and stores refused, in fear of jumping their breakers.

in

is

quite

Charging

ting gas

on. I have to charge to 90% in order to get to the next station.

to

uld

here

he only significant number is the watts.

y it is not always obvious what the error is. Above you are mixing watts a nd watthours. When you say 8000 watts per hour, I think you mean 8000 kWh/ h which is the same as 8000 watts, period. So that would be 133 Wh/min.

it somehow...

harge Cost per kWh Cost per mile

ound 300 WattHour per mile, 36000 Watts per hour is 600 watts per minute or 0.5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.075 per mile. Gas oline costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 0.5x or $

1.5/gal gas.

s around 300 WattHour per mile, 8000 Watts per hour is 133 watts per minute or 2.5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.40 per mile. G asoline costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 3x or $

9/gal gas.

Let me try again:

At 30% SOC, charging is around 400V 90A or around 36KW. Since it takes arou nd 300 WattHour per mile, 36000 Watts is 600 WattHour per minute or 0.5 min utes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.075 per mile. Gasoline co sts around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 0.5x or $1.5/gal gas.

Somewhere in between...

At 90% SOC, charging drop to around 400V 20A or around 8KW. Since it takes around 300 WattHour per mile, 8000 Watts is 133 WattHour per minute or 2.5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.40 per mile. Gasoline costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 3x or $9/gal ga s.

Reply to
edward.ming.lee

On Wednesday, January 30, 2019 at 10:11:48 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com w rote:

the

gonna

like

cars

that,

et

options

ency.

ral restaurants and stores refused, in fear of jumping their breakers.

in

is

quite

Charging

ting gas

on. I have to charge to 90% in order to get to the next station.

to

uld

here

he only significant number is the watts.

y it is not always obvious what the error is. Above you are mixing watts a nd watthours. When you say 8000 watts per hour, I think you mean 8000 kWh/ h which is the same as 8000 watts, period. So that would be 133 Wh/min.

it somehow...

harge Cost per kWh Cost per mile

ound 300 WattHour per mile, 36000 Watts per hour is 600 watts per minute or 0.5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.075 per mile. Gas oline costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 0.5x or $

1.5/gal gas.

s around 300 WattHour per mile, 8000 Watts per hour is 133 watts per minute or 2.5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.40 per mile. G asoline costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 3x or $

9/gal gas.

But when starting at 30% SoC you don't charge at 36 kW for the entire charg e do you? It charges about 36 kW for 4 minutes, then on reaching 40% SoC t he rate tapers off to 28 kW for the next 5.1 minutes, etc. taking a total o f 69.7 minutes.

I figured the charges by getting the cost of the last 10% and adding that t o the next increment for the 80% charge and so on... The cost per numbers are just divided from the total cost.

Rick C.

--- Get 6 months of free supercharging --- Tesla referral code -

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Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

We're pretty well covered on Level 2 "destination chargers" here most major malls for example have ports, my supermarket has one, the Starbucks has one, train station has one, public parking lot in town center has one...etc.

I've never seen a Tesla plugged in at any of them they just park in the spot with the Level 2 charger cable untouched and use it as a free premium parking spot if it's close to the mall entrance

Reply to
bitrex

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the only significant number is the watts.

tly it is not always obvious what the error is. Above you are mixing watts and watthours. When you say 8000 watts per hour, I think you mean 8000 kW h/h which is the same as 8000 watts, period. So that would be 133 Wh/min.

ew it somehow...

Charge Cost per kWh Cost per mile

around 300 WattHour per mile, 36000 Watts per hour is 600 watts per minute or 0.5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.075 per mile. G asoline costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 0.5x or $1.5/gal gas.

kes around 300 WattHour per mile, 8000 Watts per hour is 133 watts per minu te or 2.5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.40 per mile. Gasoline costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 3x or $9/gal gas.

rge do you? It charges about 36 kW for 4 minutes, then on reaching 40% SoC the rate tapers off to 28 kW for the next 5.1 minutes, etc. taking a total of 69.7 minutes.

to the next increment for the 80% charge and so on... The cost per numbe rs are just divided from the total cost.

It's easier to just look at the extremes. At 90% SOC, the charger is only pumping 1/5 of energy than at 30% SOC. So, the effective cost is 5x more. The car won't run below 30%. It would be OK if i keep it between 30% to 5

0% SOC. But not when i try to get to the next station.
Reply to
edward.ming.lee

Why do you want the money?

If you want to fund infrastructure a member discount type scheme may give faster growth.

If you just want to pay for electricity and maintenance, and discourage overstayers, then yeah.

--
  When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
Reply to
Jasen Betts

In a 100k vehicle why not just tow around a 25kW genset and 20 gallons of diesel on a small trailer? makes as much sense as any other fast charging option from a financial perspective at least lol

Reply to
bitrex

"check out my 'range extender'"

Reply to
bitrex

ks. The only time anyone would use chargers on a similar model to gas stat ions is when they are on long trips which require refueling in route or whe n they have no other options. In both those cases the chargers are infrequ ent enough to be "last chance gas!". But that is the exception for most pe ople who charge either at home, at work or while eating/shopping.

est option is to charge at work. Working in the city means you don't have a lot of time to walk or take a bus from the charger to work, so yes, if th ere is just one charger near work it, again, is "last chance gas!"

hop. But there are relatively few options for that. I have found very few chargers of any sort near shopping.

"Donnie's Discount Charging" in most areas where people want to drive. Th at will change, but we'll see how fast. I don't believe the "free market" model will work well, a bit like color TV. The sets were expensive and the re were only a few shows in color. No one wanted to buy sets because there were few shows and shows didn't want to pay for color production because t here were few sets. Likewise, EV charging will require investment by someo ne with a bit more at stake.

destination" chargers (level 2). There are a lot more non-Tesla level 2 ch argers, but not nearly enough. As part of Volkswagen's penance they are pa ying for an extensive network of DC fast chargers. I hope they also provid e a bunch of level 2 chargers. I'd like to see the big chains get into ins talling level 2 charging at all their stores like Costco. Who doesn't end up spending an hour or so at the big stores when they go out? Level 2 char gers can put the miles back on your car you used to get there and more.

Not sure what your point is. Your image doesn't actually show so many char gers considering that it is an area of about 1,000 square miles and has man y, many shopping locations. Just looking at the area around the Framingham supercharger I see almost no other chargers for what is probably 1,000 sto res.

Rick C.

--+ Get 6 months of free supercharging --+ Tesla referral code -

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Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

On Wednesday, January 30, 2019 at 11:17:09 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com w rote:

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Several restaurants and stores refused, in fear of jumping their breakers.

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ce the only significant number is the watts.

ectly it is not always obvious what the error is. Above you are mixing wat ts and watthours. When you say 8000 watts per hour, I think you mean 8000 kWh/h which is the same as 8000 watts, period. So that would be 133 Wh/min .

view it somehow...

al Charge Cost per kWh Cost per mile

s around 300 WattHour per mile, 36000 Watts per hour is 600 watts per minut e or 0.5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.075 per mile. Gasoline costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 0.5x or $1.5/gal gas.

takes around 300 WattHour per mile, 8000 Watts per hour is 133 watts per mi nute or 2.5 minutes per mile. At $0.15 per min, it's around $0.40 per mile . Gasoline costs around $0.13 per mile. So, Evgo Charging is close to 3x or $9/gal gas.

harge do you? It charges about 36 kW for 4 minutes, then on reaching 40% S oC the rate tapers off to 28 kW for the next 5.1 minutes, etc. taking a tot al of 69.7 minutes.

at to the next increment for the 80% charge and so on... The cost per num bers are just divided from the total cost.

y pumping 1/5 of energy than at 30% SOC. So, the effective cost is 5x more . The car won't run below 30%. It would be OK if i keep it between 30% to 50% SOC. But not when i try to get to the next station.

If the car stops running at 30% charge, why is it 30% and not zero?

In any event, the rate you calculate is the marginal rate for a 30% SoC. T he charging rate goes down as the charging proceeds and the unit cost goes up. The rate I calculated is an average over the full charge taking into a ccount the drop in charging rate.

Rick C.

-+- Get 6 months of free supercharging -+- Tesla referral code -

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Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

ks. The only time anyone would use chargers on a similar model to gas stat ions is when they are on long trips which require refueling in route or whe n they have no other options. In both those cases the chargers are infrequ ent enough to be "last chance gas!". But that is the exception for most pe ople who charge either at home, at work or while eating/shopping.

est option is to charge at work. Working in the city means you don't have a lot of time to walk or take a bus from the charger to work, so yes, if th ere is just one charger near work it, again, is "last chance gas!"

hop. But there are relatively few options for that. I have found very few chargers of any sort near shopping.

"Donnie's Discount Charging" in most areas where people want to drive. Th at will change, but we'll see how fast. I don't believe the "free market" model will work well, a bit like color TV. The sets were expensive and the re were only a few shows in color. No one wanted to buy sets because there were few shows and shows didn't want to pay for color production because t here were few sets. Likewise, EV charging will require investment by someo ne with a bit more at stake.

destination" chargers (level 2). There are a lot more non-Tesla level 2 ch argers, but not nearly enough. As part of Volkswagen's penance they are pa ying for an extensive network of DC fast chargers. I hope they also provid e a bunch of level 2 chargers. I'd like to see the big chains get into ins talling level 2 charging at all their stores like Costco. Who doesn't end up spending an hour or so at the big stores when they go out? Level 2 char gers can put the miles back on your car you used to get there and more.

Isn't that what they do in a hybrid?

Rick C.

-++ Get 6 months of free supercharging -++ Tesla referral code -

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Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

Ya something like that. I think the plug-in hybrid is the perfectly logical vehicle for a large country like this US. I charge when it's convenient for the distances involved and use gas when it's not, save a ton of $$$ on fuel and cut my CO2 emissions by 80 percent probably, buy the 5-10 gallons of gas a month I do use and I don't worry about any of this stuff.

If every car sold in the US were required to have a small pack good for

25 or 30 miles of electric driving and chargeable from a 120V wall socket US CO2 emissions and dependence on foreign oil would rapidly decrease. It wouldn't cost that much for mfgrs to do either.

Instead we're talking about superchargers and price gouging and legislation to fix charging prices and bluh bluh bluh, and it's 2019 already and you still can't buy a pure EV that's worth a shit for $35k or under off a dealer lot yet. They sold the Model T first at a good price and people wanted it and bought it and the commercial places to fuel it came in response to demand for them, they didn't care so much that sometimes they had to run it on kerosene.

I don't think the right "killer app"-car has arrived yet from the right company at the price. When it does and there's real need for the proper infrastructure and there's screaming for the infrastructure it'll follow. Maybe the 35k Model 3 is that car we don't know yet tho.

This is the US after all I figure we'll get there when we get there and I'm not sure any legislation can help, they should've sold the Volt on saving money and they never did. Shame. Maybe Honda, Hyundai and the others will have better luck.

Will we "get there" wherever "there" is before fossil fuels run out or the coasts flood? anyone's guess I suppose.

Reply to
bitrex

I think that least currently there is _enough_ infrastructure such that when that "killer app" EV drops, the one that sells in quantity of five million or something over say 5 years, the infrastructure will be prepared-enough as it is now that it can move that quantity, already.

Reply to
bitrex

If they let the market set the price they wouldn't need to bother with this Gosplan approach, but if they used the free market to set prices nobody would buy the cars.

Reply to
Tom Del Rosso

Why you should pay "per minute" instead of "per kWh" ?

Bye Jack

Reply to
jack4747

Americans don't pay the true costs of driving, that's why gas prices are so low as compared to Europe and the infrastructure is falling apart. When all the roads are privately-owned toll roads then the market will be free and we can make apples-to-apples comparisons

Reply to
bitrex

A proper "plug in hybrid" would have a battery you can remove and replace with an IC engine for long trips.

Clifford Heath.

Reply to
Clifford Heath

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