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Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free

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  I am quite sure that over half the chips you use in your designs  
would not even exist if folks all had mindsets like yours.  You are  
almost as pathetic as Donald J. Trump is.     Almost.

Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 16:31:59 +0000 (UTC),
snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote:

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Stealing electricity is stealing.

Tell us about your electric car.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 1:27:04 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
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LOL!  This guy rakes up all the muck he can and would not be caught dead in an electric car, then seems to be chastising someone for responding to his BS and not talking about the EV!  lol!!!  

--  

  Rick C.

  +- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in

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  Except this branch of the thread was about charging and power and  
availbilty and making it available in the future...  you know...  
those single steps I referred to.  Larkin seems to be against  
progress that is not *his* progress.

  Must be that reptilian thing.  In his case I would say common yard  
slug.

Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Sat, 30 Mar 2019 12:47:56 +0000 (UTC),
snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote:

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No, I am against paying taxes to subsidize upper-middle-class people
who want to virtue signal or save a few bucks or drive alone in HOV
lanes by buying EVs.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free

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  The people do not get to decide where the taxes they pay get used.  
If you think you do, you are a true idiot.

  That is why we have an utter retard as our president right now.

  And you pissing and moaning about who uses the HOV lanes is  
hilarious.

Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 11:56:55 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
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Ok, so Larkin is ok with the EV incentives as long as we don't give them HOV perks.  Glad to know that.  I was thinking he was not an EV supporter.  Silly me.  

--  

  Rick C.

  ---- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:49:49 -0700 (PDT),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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I had an insanely rich friend who had an early Tesla (and a very short
commute in San Diego) and he let me drive it. I thought it was ugly
but otherwise OK, but I wouldn't want to own one. It is mostly an
enthusiast's car, and I want a car that will get me to Lake Tahoe in
mid-winter with minimal mental overhead. Put low-temp fluid in the
window washer and fill the gas tank around Sacramento. I need gas
every three weeks or so anyhow.

I'd rather design electronics that we can sell, and not spend my
mental energy calculating whether I can make it to the next charging
station climbing a mountain at 15 degrees F. My wife would not like me
turning the heater off.  

Do that sort of enthusiast thing if you enjoy it; but I'd rather not
finance it.

What I chastised the OP about was stealing. Sounds like EV owners feel
entitled to do that.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 11:00:35 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
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ow  
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s.
  
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 in an electric car, then seems to be chastising someone for responding to  
his BS and not talking about the EV!  lol!!!  
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You just described the EV trip from SF to Truckee in the winter.  In warmer
 months you would not need to stop anywhere to charge since this is a 200 m
ile trip (even with the elevation change which I have shown to be not a sig
nificant factor in another thread) which I do often in my model X (the gas  
hog of the Tesla line).  In the winter charging around Sacramento gets you  
to Truckee with >40% reserve if I recall correctly.  

You can explore various trips yourself at  

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

Actually, I set this trip to a 15 degree temperature and 250 lbs extra weig
ht and snowing and it doesn't recommend that you charge in Sacramento to re
ach the Truckee Supercharger with 40% remaining.  It suggests you stop at t
he OTHER Truckee Supercharger to get to 40% first, lol.  Changing the requi
rements to arrive at all chargers with at least 40% SoC it then recommends  
that you charge in Rocklin (the last Supercharger before Truckee) for 26 mi
nutes.  Just enough time to have a cup of coffee and a danish.  

So your BS is busted!  

As to filling with gas, with an EV you will never need to stop at a smelly,
 ugly gas station again since you can charge at home.  But I guess on trips
 you will need to empty your bladder once in a while.  


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Yes, you should save your mental capacity since it seems to have greatly di
minished over the years.  


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Yes, again, I can see the mental degradation.  One person talks about needi
ng to charge at an available outlet and you extrapolate that to "EV owners  
feel entitled".  

--  

  Rick C.

  ++- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 8:00:35 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

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Well, don't look at the SMALL items, then; there's no road tax on the 'fuel'
they use, and that's probably the larger issue, anyhow.   A couple of
kilowatts for a few hours a day is peanuts compared to the cost of
a covered parking space (in most cities), but a highway system
takes real money for upkeep.   Vehicle fuel taxes matter.

As for 'feel entitled', no it's not that, they  just see the opportunity, and
convenience.   If they had a way to pay, I suspect that'd be OK, too.

Something that takes hours to charge, will NOT work well in a
drive-in station with attendants and impulse-buy displays.   But
garage outlets, that's a win.

Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On 3/29/19 9:51 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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They hate electric cars on principle but maybe also realize the biggest  
manufacturers of electric cars are American car companies.

Quite a conundrum!



Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free

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There's no reason to hate electric cars. It's reasonable to hate
public subsidies of electric cars. Most of that subsidy money goes to
upper-class Democrat coastal greenies, so Republicans generally don't
approve.

American car companies are making electric cars partly because of the
government subsidies and side benefits, like cheating in commute
lanes. It will be interesting to see what the subsidy phase-outs do.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Saturday, March 30, 2019 at 3:00:54 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
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Less so if you have the reasoning power to realise that the US - and everywhere else - has to stop burning gasoline in cars to slow down global warming.

John Larkin is a gullible twit who has allowed denialist propaganda to blind him to this obvious point.

Electric cars now deliver more kilometres per dollars-worth of fuel than their gasoline-burning counterparts, so the subsidies have done their work and can be phased out.

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Republicans want the world to change as little as possible, and have a habit of failing to adapt to changes that have taken place. Buying a non-traditional car is not a Republican thing.
  
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Electric cars are cheaper to run than their internal-combustion-engined counter-parts. The subsidies have put enough of them on the road to provide the bare minimum of support infra-structure that they need, so they have done their job.

John Larkin will lose interest as soon as the results start coming in - they won't confirm his silly ideas, so he'll ignore them (rather than correcting one of his numerous collection of silly ideas).

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney



Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On 3/29/2019 8:51 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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  I propose poor people drive used cars, if they can find a used  
electric, fine. But a poor person should not be buying a new car, it
would be a poor financial choice.
  Then figure out if there is a way for you not to be poor.
  This is America, only in special situations is there a reason for a  
person to remain poor.

  From one who never bought a new car, paid cash for used and put the  
rest into VTSAX.
  And control the thermostat, don't keep up with the Jones, don't be a  
consumer sucker. You don't need all that junk.
And you don't need to eat out so often.
  /rant over/
  Have a good day!

Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 9:51:35 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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-tax-credit/
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federal tax credit for electric cars and tax them even more instead.
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emove the federal tax credit cap for EVs and expand it to 2022.
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 tax credits for the rich, and provides charging credit for the poor instea
d.  All charging stations should be free.

An interesting idea, but I would not want to see that happen.  First, the E
V purchase tax credit is not about benefiting the end user so much as simpl
y reducing the price of the vehicles so they can be sold during the ramp up
 period when costs are still high.  This seems to have been working with a  
new auto company founded solely producing EVs and the rest of the major aut
o companies announcing new models to be on the road in a year or two.  The  
only "defect" in the law is that it has a quantity cap for each manufacture
r.  Tesla has used their full tax credits and will have used the remaining  
credits this year I believe.  At that point they will be at a disadvantage,
 coincident with trying to roll out a new model Y.  Not so good for anyone.
  

I think the EV tax credit should be on all vehicles sold in the US until so
me date regardless of company.  This will encourage early adoption while ma
intaining a level playing field.  

The tax credits aren't about subsidizing the rich or supporting the poor.  
It is about getting EVs off the ground now rather than waiting another 20 y
ears.  

Charging at home is the preferred way to charge an EV.  If you make all EV  
charging free, will that include at home?  Make the utility company pay for
 your EV charging?  

Make all EV chargers free and there won't be any.  

--  

  Rick C.

  - Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
:
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le-tax-credit/
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0 federal tax credit for electric cars and tax them even more instead.
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 remove the federal tax credit cap for EVs and expand it to 2022.
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le tax credits for the rich, and provides charging credit for the poor inst
ead.  All charging stations should be free.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 EV purchase tax credit is not about benefiting the end user so much as sim
ply reducing the price of the vehicles so they can be sold during the ramp  
up period when costs are still high.  This seems to have been working with  
a new auto company founded solely producing EVs and the rest of the major a
uto companies announcing new models to be on the road in a year or two.  Th
e only "defect" in the law is that it has a quantity cap for each manufactu
rer.  Tesla has used their full tax credits and will have used the remainin
g credits this year I believe.  At that point they will be at a disadvantag
e, coincident with trying to roll out a new model Y.  Not so good for anyon
e.  

It already accomplished the goal of getting the early starter.  Now, it has
 the opposite effect of slowing down the EV productions.  Other EV makers w
ant to keep productions as slow as possible, in order to maintain this EV c
redit advantage.  Time to phase it out completely.  And to encourage EV own
ership, enough free chargers accomplish the same.

If there are as many charging stations (even only L1) as gas stations, 50 m
iles EV is good enough for me and many others.  We don't want to be driving
 a mobile explosive around.

Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 5:39:21 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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te:
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e:
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icle-tax-credit/
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500 federal tax credit for electric cars and tax them even more instead.
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to remove the federal tax credit cap for EVs and expand it to 2022.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
icle tax credits for the rich, and provides charging credit for the poor in
stead.  All charging stations should be free.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
he EV purchase tax credit is not about benefiting the end user so much as s
imply reducing the price of the vehicles so they can be sold during the ram
p up period when costs are still high.  This seems to have been working wit
h a new auto company founded solely producing EVs and the rest of the major
 auto companies announcing new models to be on the road in a year or two.  
The only "defect" in the law is that it has a quantity cap for each manufac
turer.  Tesla has used their full tax credits and will have used the remain
ing credits this year I believe.  At that point they will be at a disadvant
age, coincident with trying to roll out a new model Y.  Not so good for any
one.  
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Not really.  If Tesla closes doors, the other automakers won't be nearly so
 eager to push EV sales.  Heck, GM beat Tesla to the punch in making an aff
ordable EV.  But GM won't even advertise it.  You have to go to the dealer  
and beg them to sell you one.  

We are a long way from EVs becoming mainstream.  About 10 years and $15,000
.  


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r EV makers want to keep productions as slow as possible, in order to maint
ain this EV credit advantage.  Time to phase it out completely.  And to enc
ourage EV ownership, enough free chargers accomplish the same.

Pure BS.  Are you suggesting that the lines are forming at other EV dealers
 and they are refusing to sell EVs?  No, EVs are a long way from being "pop
ular" or in demand.  


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 miles EV is good enough for me and many others.  We don't want to be drivi
ng a mobile explosive around.

Really?  You want to stop every 40 minutes to charge on a trip?  Lol!  

--  

  Rick C.

  --- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 5:39:21 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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te:
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e:
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icle-tax-credit/
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500 federal tax credit for electric cars and tax them even more instead.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
to remove the federal tax credit cap for EVs and expand it to 2022.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
icle tax credits for the rich, and provides charging credit for the poor in
stead.  All charging stations should be free.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
he EV purchase tax credit is not about benefiting the end user so much as s
imply reducing the price of the vehicles so they can be sold during the ram
p up period when costs are still high.  This seems to have been working wit
h a new auto company founded solely producing EVs and the rest of the major
 auto companies announcing new models to be on the road in a year or two.  
The only "defect" in the law is that it has a quantity cap for each manufac
turer.  Tesla has used their full tax credits and will have used the remain
ing credits this year I believe.  At that point they will be at a disadvant
age, coincident with trying to roll out a new model Y.  Not so good for any
one.  
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as the opposite effect of slowing down the EV productions.  Other EV makers
 want to keep productions as slow as possible, in order to maintain this EV
 credit advantage.  Time to phase it out completely.  And to encourage EV o
wnership, enough free chargers accomplish the same.
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 miles EV is good enough for me and many others.  We don't want to be drivi
ng a mobile explosive around.

Why not get a 1kW Honda generator for the car?

(I'm against subsidies in general--it's just wrong to make
other people pay for your stuff.)

Cheers,
James Arthur

Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 3:04:19 PM UTC-7, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:
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rote:
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ote:
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ehicle-tax-credit/
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7,500 federal tax credit for electric cars and tax them even more instead.
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l to remove the federal tax credit cap for EVs and expand it to 2022.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ehicle tax credits for the rich, and provides charging credit for the poor  
instead.  All charging stations should be free.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 the EV purchase tax credit is not about benefiting the end user so much as
 simply reducing the price of the vehicles so they can be sold during the r
amp up period when costs are still high.  This seems to have been working w
ith a new auto company founded solely producing EVs and the rest of the maj
or auto companies announcing new models to be on the road in a year or two.
  The only "defect" in the law is that it has a quantity cap for each manuf
acturer.  Tesla has used their full tax credits and will have used the rema
ining credits this year I believe.  At that point they will be at a disadva
ntage, coincident with trying to roll out a new model Y.  Not so good for a
nyone.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 has the opposite effect of slowing down the EV productions.  Other EV make
rs want to keep productions as slow as possible, in order to maintain this  
EV credit advantage.  Time to phase it out completely.  And to encourage EV
 ownership, enough free chargers accomplish the same.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
50 miles EV is good enough for me and many others.  We don't want to be dri
ving a mobile explosive around.
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I might have to.  But that defeats the clean air and anti-oil principles.

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It's more for redirecting the gov. sub. that are already on the book and to
 get us off oil faster.  The actual money involved in charging is not that  
much, but we need the incentive and volume for EV ownership to grow.


Re: EV Charging: Let It Be Free
On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 6:14:07 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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:
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e:
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 wrote:
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wrote:
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-vehicle-tax-credit/
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 $7,500 federal tax credit for electric cars and tax them even more instead
.
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ill to remove the federal tax credit cap for EVs and expand it to 2022.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 vehicle tax credits for the rich, and provides charging credit for the poo
r instead.  All charging stations should be free.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
t, the EV purchase tax credit is not about benefiting the end user so much  
as simply reducing the price of the vehicles so they can be sold during the
 ramp up period when costs are still high.  This seems to have been working
 with a new auto company founded solely producing EVs and the rest of the m
ajor auto companies announcing new models to be on the road in a year or tw
o.  The only "defect" in the law is that it has a quantity cap for each man
ufacturer.  Tesla has used their full tax credits and will have used the re
maining credits this year I believe.  At that point they will be at a disad
vantage, coincident with trying to roll out a new model Y.  Not so good for
 anyone.  
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it has the opposite effect of slowing down the EV productions.  Other EV ma
kers want to keep productions as slow as possible, in order to maintain thi
s EV credit advantage.  Time to phase it out completely.  And to encourage  
EV ownership, enough free chargers accomplish the same.
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, 50 miles EV is good enough for me and many others.  We don't want to be d
riving a mobile explosive around.
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It doesn't have to.  You'd still run mostly on battery, and the
generator run at optimum torque and RPM could be quite efficient.

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to get us off oil faster.  The actual money involved in charging is not tha
t much, but we need the incentive and volume for EV ownership to grow.

That's not for a national nanny government to decide to push people
into, not in a free country. Herding the flock is not what government
is for.

When EVs make sense, the People will buy them. They won't need subsidies.
I'm tempted to get a Prius, for example, no subsidy needed.

FWIW, random note: I calculated recently that the wear-and-tear
cost of using a Tesla pack is about 12.7 cents per kWH.

Cheers,
James Arthur

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