Does Bad Karma Have an Expiration Date?

No. God and religion is a result of trying to make other people do good.

Clifford Heath

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Clifford Heath
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Many well-washed people have been religious too.

Even a non-religious morality, a sense of honesty and fairless and courage, is arguably a handicap for an individual but an asset to a group. Since most of us have such standards, group evolution probably gave it to us.

If you explain proper social behavior to people, they will cheat when no-one is looking. Innate standards work 24/7.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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John Larkin

Oh, you've got it completely backwards. God is the result, part of, selecting for 'doing good'. (that's my understanding) Do you think God is a bad concept? Have you ever gone to a church you liked? George H.

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George Herold

Your starting premise is faulty. As is true for most organisms, fighting i s risky behavior. Unless there is something important to gain it is best a voided which is what most animals do. Humans are from a group of animals n ot typically aggressive unless threatened. Defending territory is one reas on to fight, but for primitive humans this can end badly.

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  Rick C. 

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Rick C

I don't follow your reasoning. We have evolved for the benefit of the species by "doing good" for others. How does God come into the equation?

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  Rick C. 

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Rick C

Hmm OK, nature and nurture, so some of both maybe. Still our morals come from religion. Where else? Nature is brutal! Eat or be eaten.

Huh, OK I'm saying the idea of 'doing good first' is baked in and not the idea of God.

Doesn't everyone want to 'do good'? Where does that idea of good come from? (the deep roots all look to be from some religion and/or another.)

George H.

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George Herold

No, there are plenty of people who care not a whit of "doing good".

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  Rick C. 

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Rick C

her.

If pretty much everybody else is religious, it's the path of least resistan ce. You have to be particularly dedicated to thinking logically to be willing t o take on the social odium of not taking religion seriously. Read Jonathon Israel on the Radical Enlightenment.

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Spinoza got a lot of stick for working through the issues logically. Once h e had done it, the idea caught on.

Most of the great apes seem to have the same standards, so it looks as if i t is advantageous for smaller groups of individual than the 150 (Dunbar's n umber) humans seem to settle into.

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But free-loading psychopaths do seem to show up rather frequently - Trump l ooks very like one. Gossip provides an obvious route to detecting them and warning other people about them. Innate standards are all very well, but as long as recessive mutations throw up the occasional standard-free cheat wh o can do well out of cheating they aren't going to get selected out.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
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Bill Sloman

No, they don't. Each person benefits from other people doing well at things they now don't need to do for themselves. I wish others well, I'm willing to put myself out to help them, and I'm glad we have a system that mostly prevents them from doing me harm. It's based on mutual benefit.

Even that is not baked in. The notion of 'receiving good first' is baked in. The possibility of assisting in 'receiving good' by doing good comes from the social contract.

No. Everyone wants things to be good for them and the ones they care about. Only the progressively enlightened realise that they receive net benefits from helping (progressively further) distant folk to prosper.

As the opposite of personal harm, I suspect.

No, religion is a rationalisation created with coercive intent, because even in a functioning society, most people do all the evil they can secretly get away with. So you have to scare them into believing that all will be revealed and paid for eventually. The coercive institutions thus created have been shown to act as cover for the leaders to get away with quite a lot! Which shows that their 'morality' is intended for other people to practise, not for themselves. It's coercive, not personal.

Clifford Heath.

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Clifford Heath

I think there's a difference between a "personal God" and a personal God who one believes talks to them regularly.

When some pastors claim God spoke to them the natural question is Oh does God speak to you on the regular? I would've thought a God would have better things to do with God's time.

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bitrex

Just the opposite. God is everywhere, everything and all powerful. Why can't she talk to everyone as she wishes?

If God is a woman, is she like *really* hot? I mean like Charisma Carpenter hot?

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  Rick C. 

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Rick C

I've always felt that if God wants me to believe in Her, She will let me know in no uncertain terms. Why would She play games and expect me to figure out how to play the game? Oh, right, She's a woman!

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  Rick C. 

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Rick C

I never said God _couldn't_ do it

Do lots of *really* hot earthly women call you up to chat with you regularly, too?

Reply to
bitrex

Sounds like you're onto something...

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bitrex

An important thing to know about being happy with women in your life is that often what's unsaid is just as important, or more, than what is said explicitly.

Think - contract law.

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bitrex

I'm pretty sure morality existed before religion

Reply to
tabbypurr

Since at least some of the great apes seem to understand fairness and get cross when it's violated, this seems to be fairly obvious.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
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Bill Sloman

George Herold wrote in news:a1bef1fa-5560-4766- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

There is a movie about a prison made on an island and the prisoners ran things... Not a good outcome.

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DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

There is a big range between abstinence and casual hooking up. The more people you network with, the more pathogens you will be exposed to.

Great but terrifying book, And The Band Played On. The first people who came down with AIDS had had literally thousands of sexual partners. Randy Shilts wrote the book as he was dying of AIDS.

I'd expect it to be much higher than the chance of road death. There are dozens of STD viruses and a few cause cervical and prostate cancer, and herpes isn't fun either. There are stealth STDs that are not as obvious as syphilus and such.

We may have another global killer STD, probably a virus. Nasty viruses keep popping up.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

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John Larkin

od

y can't she talk to everyone as she wishes?

enter hot?

Only the ones who have met me.

The issue still remains that there is no earthly reason for a god to play g ames with us requiring us to have "blind" faith, etc. Or is that what is h appening, a creator is "playing" with us, providing all manner of arcane ru les which are left up to us to figure out? If so, I think we have done a h orrible job of it. We attribute everything to God from the beauty of a sun set to plagues and disease that ravage our populations and kill innocents e n masse. "The greater plan of God"

What sort of idiot would believe any of that?

Randy Newman - God's Song

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The existence of religion shows the stupidity of human existence. Or maybe it shows that we are not capable of existence without believing we are part of something important, regardless of the evidence.

"Lord, if you won't take care of us Won't you please, please let us be?"

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  Rick C. 

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Rick C

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