Contact Enhancer, Battery Mfr

In my home, Duracell is permanently prohibited. I have had too many devices destroyed by leaking Duracell batteries.

--
David E. Ross 
 

Consider: 
*  Most state mandate that drivers have liability insurance. 
*  Employers are mandated to have worker's compensation insurance. 
*  If you live in a flood zone, flood insurance is mandatory. 
*  If your home has a mortgage, fire insurance is mandatory. 

Why then is mandatory health insurance so bad??

Try looking up Cramolin and Gold Mist.

Dan

I've had them all leak. The solution is to keep batteries fresh. If we have a power outage and flashlights get used, I change all the batteries, whether they need it or not. Remotes get their batteries changed at least once a year and other devices are left without batteries in them or, sometimes, a slip of paper between the contact and the battery. Alkalines leak when they're discharged, so don't let that happen. BTW, Duracells are about all I use anymore. They're somewhat cheaper than Everready's and just as good.

I'm not aware of anything; IME, tinning with solder is often beneficial, but of course not practical if they're inaccessible.

Automotive use sometimes uses some sort of jelly-like substance around the battery terminals - my memory's telling me Vaseline or petroleum jelly (are those the same thing?), but my memory needs needs a new battery ... (-:

I don't _think_ I've ever had a rechargeable cell leak, at least anything corrosive - at least not since NiMHs. (Of which I now only buy the ones that hold their charge: they tend to only be available in about

80% the capacity [2.5 rather than 2.9 Ah for AA, 3/4 rather than 1 Ah for AAA], but I don't have to worry about whether they're charged when I need them.)

As someone else has said, alkalines leak when discharged. (I've had zinc ones go off even when unused, but even if I had a need for primary cells, I don't think I'd buy zinc.)

The one time I've seen actual capacities quoted for primary cells (in a Farnell catalogue: that's the same company as something beginning with H in the US), Duracells _were_ the highest capacity, but only by about

10%; given the amount of advertising they do, which you usually pay for in the price, I'd not normally buy them - if I had to buy primary cells, I'd buy own-brand (but alkalines), since the variation isn't great.

If unavailable, i. e. obsolete, you have nothing to lose guarantee-wise by breaking into the device.

>

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/

On a sunny day (Sun, 4 Jun 2017 07:30:02 -0700) it happened BatteryUser wrote in :

You may check if you are in some aggressive environment, or use shit type batteries,

4 sure this does not normally happen.

Recommendation: If you do not use the device for any length of time, then REMOVE the (alkaline) batteries.

I have some Duracell AA in my tritium experiment now for 5 years, replaced 2 by Chinese no name because the Duras were getting low (can you blame them those function as mains failure backup). No leaking, room temperature though, and I designed the tronix.

In other things that are much less frequently used I use Eneloops. No Eneloop ever leaked here, but again I designed the tronix and less than .001 uA flows when off... (MOSFET switches).

So nothing wrong with Duracell AFAIAC.

Lipos are the batteries of the present and future, and LifePo4 is safest, Recently somebody mentioned a lipo based 9 V cell. I have lifepo4 3 V AAA in a wireless keyboard (one 3V cell and a dummy cell to replace 2 x 1.5 V AAA).

And then as to the contact issue, SOLDER connections are most reliable. I have several small 3.7 V lipos in projects that are recharged over and over again, soldered in, use a special Microchip charger chip, some have passed (contrary what many expect or state) over a thousand recharges and still work. But those are low power about 1 Ah types with build in protection. I have high power 40C 11.1 V lipos even used to start a motorcycle.. So.. migrate to lipo, solder connections, ebay is full of lipo based normal battery replacements.

It is a pity for whatshisname (very rich guy) he bough so much into Duracell, as Sanyo Eneloops are so much better, In a way that non-rechargeable stuff is over, Eneloops are 'always ready to use' even have those in emergency flashlights, But Duracells, as stated, are not BAD. But the high Ah rechargeables I have from them hold charge only for a day, making those useless. So, Eneloop, lipo, Lifepo4.

And stop f*cking cross posting like an idiot.

There is much misinformation floating about the concept of 'dielectric greases' as 'dielectric' implies non-conducting rather than conducting.

There is a problem with conducting greases, because you would need for the metal in the grease to match the metal in the contacts or there will be more problem rather than less.

Somewhat interesting article here

Dielectric Grease vs Conductive Grease

--
Mike Easter

Zinc carbon leak a lot. Alkaline leak sometimes. NiCd & NiMH leak but seldo m, so those are the option to go for.

Solder batteries in where practical. Otherwise, gold flashed battery contac ts are best. A cheap option is petroleum jelly, ie vaseline.

The only good way to fix corroded contacts is open & scrape clean. If you t ruly can't get to them, gluing a bit of fine wet & dry sandpaper on the bot tom of a battery and a bit of bendy pipe on top might get you there, maybe. But really I'd learn how to open it.

NT

What has happened is that the alkaline electrolyte (potassium hydroxide) attacks the tin or chrome plating on the spring connectors. The connectors are made from spring steel, plated with copper, nickel and either chrome or tin (if it needs to be soldered). Oxides of these metals make for lousy electrical connections.

The problem is that you're not going to improve the connection between steel (rust) and the battery terminal (stainless steel) with any kind of "contact enhancer" or magic elixir. Even replating the spring clips doesn't help if there is a liquid electrolyte or caustic agent present. The trick is to keep the contacts dry so that there's no electrolysis possible. That's unlikely with unsealed portable devices. I've had some luck spot welding small squares of stainless steel shim stock onto the spring terminals, but that requires total disassembly of the device, which is not always possible or convenient. It also hardens the spring steel, causing the spring eventually break.

My experience with various "dielectric greases" and "contact enhancers" have been dismal. Most do an excellent job of trapping small amounts of electrolyte in the grease so that it can continue to do damage. The best I've been able to do is seal the alkaline battery with thin RTV at the junction of the battery contacts and the case. That also plugs up the overpressure valve. Fortunately, alkaline batteries only belch gas at EOL (end of life) which is a tolerable indication that it's time to replace the cells.

I have a few suggestions on how to minimize the damage caused by alkaline batteries, but in the end, the only solution is to avoid using alkaline batteries. I've been switching to LSD (low self discharge) NiMH cells such as Eneloop, and LiIon where possible. I've had the older type of NiMH cells leak. However, Eneloops can be made to leak, usually by overcharging: None of my LiIon cells have leaked yet. If your device will handle NiMH cells, do it. If your device can handle LiIon, even better.

Unfortunately, that won't help if your battery contacts have already had the tin or chrome contact layers removed by corrosion. Replacing the contacts might be possible. Repairing them with replating is too much work. Spot welding or soldering some pieces of metal to the sprint clip is ugly, but does work. Leaving the corroded contact metal exposed, especially if the battery compartment hasn't been thoroughly cleaned is guaranteed to recreate your intermittent connection problem.

All the alkalines I've used leak. Some leak in the original packaging. Other alkalines perfer to leak where they can do the most damage:

That's also been my experience. Oddly, Costco Kirkland batteries didn't leak very much and had a much longer shelf life until after Costco started putting highly visible expiration dates on their bubble pack packages. My conspiracy theory is that they did something to REDUCE the shelf life of their cells.

I tried to answer that under your first question. Basically, you either provide a better connection by replacing, replating, or augmenting the contacts, or you'll have continuous bad connections. If you want a short cut, try welding nickel strips to the terminals of your battery and bypass the spring contacts completely. It will be rather awkward having to weld nickel strips onto your alkaline batteries when they are replaced, but that's the price of not having to replace the spring contacts. Switching to LSD NiMH will help reduce the leaks, but won't fix the intermittent connection problem.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Petroleum jelly is not a great universal solution. If the device is open the jelly will likely migrate around inside the device if it gets at all warm and potentially contaminate parts. Particularly vulnerable is the display where the jelly can obscure the screen.

--

Rick C

A fingernail accessory, an emery board, works nicely. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions. 

"It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that 
is the secret of happiness."  -James Barrie

Same here. Duracell = rubbish.

There are also a little bigger than the correct size for AA and will jam in some devices that will take any other AA battery without problems.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK). 
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

The LSD NiMH from Aldidl and 7dayshop are a tad big - IME they go in but can be difficult to get out where they slide in axially. Eneloop are OK for size, but I don't know if the other 'good' makes are.

--
Peter. 
The gods will stay away  
whilst religions hold sway

The idea isn't that the grease is conductive (it's not), rather than it will aid in creating a "gas-tight" contact, reducing oxidation. The contacts wipe through the grease but it piles up around the contacts, keeping air and water from the contacts.

PJ also turns to glue. It's not a good solution for much, other than baby bottoms.

I have had some good experience with contact cleaners, but none of it was on battery contacts.

See

A paper from AMP back in 1979.

Dan

** Why not just get a small bottle of snake oil and use that....

..... Phil

--------------------

** Smear some light oil ( 3 in 1 or sewing machine ) on the battery terminals.

Polish them first with a clean rag.

Never let cells go flat in your equipment.

..... Phil

I mix my own. Mineral oil and oleic acid to remove oxides. After application and CLEANING, I have to wash the oleic acid off with any kind of household cleaner, or it slowly attacks anything made from copper. Works nicely for CLEANING contacts, but does little to protect them. Grease, oils, and dielectric greases are suppose to do that, but they either don't last, are washed off, melt away, or simply don't work. Did I mention that contact cleaner is for CLEANING contacts, not protecting them? Thanks, just checking...

Fret not

Fretting corrosion is caused the motion of contacts against each other eventually wearing away a surface. Unfortunately, unless you remove and insert the battery as a replacement for a proper on-off switch, that's unlikely to happen. If the battery vibrates or moves around in the battery holder, then some foam packing to hold the batteries in place should solve the alleged fretting corrosion problem. However, if there were some motion or micro-motion, a lubricant would reduce the wear, thereby reducing or delaying fretting corrosion.

In this case, the battery problem is caused by a visible and obvious layer of assorted oxides built up between the battery terminal and the spring contact forming an insulator.

Hint: If it's black, it's either one of the oxides of Copper or Nickel. If it's white, it's one of the tin oxides. If it's reddish, it's an oxide of iron. If it's gray or brown, it's a mixture of these.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote on 6/4/2017 11:54 AM:

Yes, they are the same thing. I've heard of that being slathered over the starting battery terminals, but I wouldn't use it on anything else, at least not any electronics. On a car battery the protection is from the unavoidable small amount of battery acid leaked in operation. Other places in the car don't have that problem and you don't want petroleum jelly melting into stuff where you didn't intend it.

I think you will find Duracells are priced competatively if you shop around. Here Costco has good prices on Duracells, but they have their own brand which is even cheaper. A number of reviews have been done and they show the Costco brand to be just as good as the Duracells and in fact, the found tiny dimples on the Costco brand cells that are only found on a type of Duracell (one that isn't their cheapest cells).

Reviews (tests) have shown the Sunshine brand from Dollar Tree (a store where "Everything is a Dollar") are just as good as well and even cheaper than the Costco brand at 4 for $1.

Costco has great prices on hearing aid batteries too. Cheaper than any other prices I have found.

--

Rick C