Carving tool for pcb's

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I was surfing YouTube and found a video on ultrasonic cutters, which I'd  
never noticed before.  Small ones, 20 W or so, are available for about  
$300-400 on eBay and seem to do a fine job on thin paper, plastics, rubber,  
etc.  A couple of videos show cutting traces on pcb's but I'm not sure what  
the wattage is on them.  Anyway, I wonder if one of these would be better  
than a simple razor knife for the kind of prototyping JL likes to do?  First  
video I saw was
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFeek0a8s7Q
; he's very  
entertaining but doesn't actually try a pcb but does open one up so you can  
see the innards.  Another video,  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m1SK_l3sKo
, does show cutting gaps in  
traces but doesn't actually give the specs on the cutter.  Anyway, I'm sure  
you can find other examples, I just thought it was neat and I hadn't seen  
these before.  There were some times I was hand carving 0.02 to 0.06 plastic  
sheets and making oddball holes in project boxes when I would have loved to  
have one of these.

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames  


Re: Carving tool for pcb's
Carl wrote...
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 Would you have loved it $400 worth?


--  
 Thanks,
    - Win

Re: Carving tool for pcb's
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If I could have talked my boss into it :-).  Along with what I was doing we  
hand cut a moderate number of foam rubber and viton sheet gaskets so I would  
have had a shot at it, but probably not.  We had dies made for higher volume  
gaskets and had those custom punched but there were a few low volume items  
we still did the old way.  Besides, I'm guessing John's toy budget is  
different from mine.

--  
Regards,
Carl Ijames  


Re: Carving tool for pcb's
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 14:52:40 -0400, "Carl"

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I get along with a Dremel and some x-axto knives, with occasional help
from a drill press and a shear and sandpaper and, rarely, an old
Bridgeport mill and a band saw. Normal shop stuff.

We have a Tormach but it has to be programmed so isn't for casual use.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: Carving tool for pcb's
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 12:45:12 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

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+1 on the Dremel. Use with adequate ventilation or a mask.



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Re: Carving tool for pcb's

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  Normal stuff?  You guys never heard of resist and etchant?

Re: Carving tool for pcb's
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 20:06:42 +0000 (UTC),
snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote:

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That's a lot of hassle. Slow and dirty and messy. Bad resolution, bad
registration, just two layers, no vias.

We had one of those pcb milling machines for a while, but it was too
much hassle too. Got rid of it.

There are lots of cheap quick-turn pcb shops now. For a non-trivial
prototype, lay out a proper 4-layer board with 5 mil features and real
vias and solder mask and silk, and do something else for a week until
it arrives.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: Carving tool for pcb's
On 13/04/2019 18:56, Carl wrote:
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Anyone know the name for the profile of cintride/sintered  
nitride/"diamond" dremmel-type bits. The small reverse cone on the  
active end, I find most useful for tidy pcb-track deletions?
. Not in every pack of "diamond" bits, unfortunately.
Another useful type is , assuming I don't break it along the way. I save  
any 0.5mm thick simple grinding discs , worn by use cutting into steel  
sheet usually, so
instead of being 15mm diameter, only about 6mm or so diameter

Re: Carving tool for pcb's

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  The tiny "concrete saw" composistion and form are called "cut off  
wheels"  More ideal to use a brand new one than the smaller diameter  
used ones.  That will keep the heat generated on the cutting edge  
down.

Re: Carving tool for pcb's
On Sunday, 14 April 2019 11:31:38 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org  wrote:

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The reverse cone shaped bits are not cutoff wheels, but I don't know what they are called.


NT

Re: Carving tool for pcb's
On 14/04/2019 11:42, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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The reverse-cone ones don't skitter across the copper surface, like the  
"edge" end of a cylinder type or ball type often do, presumably because  
its more of a cutting angle at the base of the cone.


Re: Carving tool for pcb's
On Sun, 14 Apr 2019 13:36:20 +0100, N_Cook wrote:

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If you use the sub-min spherical ones embedded with diamond dust, they  
don't 'grab' the surface. These accessories usually come as part of a  
selection and are dirt cheap and definitely worth having:

http://tinyurl.com/y6kxthub




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Re: Carving tool for pcb's
On 14/4/19 10:36 pm, N_Cook wrote:
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For whatever reason, they do work better. But regardless what burr you  
use, the best thing you can do its run at an extremely high RPM with  
very light force. The air turbine dentist drills run half a million RPM,  
and feel like you're using a tiny paintbrush to brush away dust. Not  
enough bite to create drag. Totally different experience from a Dremel.

Re: Carving tool for pcb's
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in

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I was referring to the .5 mm 'gringing disc' you mentioned.

  If it is indeed a small grinding wheel you describe, the 'cut-off'  
wheel works far better.  That is all I was talking about.  And I  
mentioned that using the thing after its diameter has been reduced  
produces more heat at the work site than the larger diameter.

Re: Carving tool for pcb's
On Sunday, 14 April 2019 13:55:37 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org  wrote:
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Someone else brought that up.

Re: Carving tool for pcb's

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I use carbide dental burrs. The diamond dust things are awful.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-Kerr-Rotary-H330RZ-FG-Razor-Operative-Carbide-Burs-New-Dental-Burr-330-Pear/283161882527?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?dl=0

One carbide burr lasts many months hacking FR4.





--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: Carving tool for pcb's

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Milling copperclad by hand, I found it very difficult to control cut
depth with a disk; it tends to hop around. Slicing clear through the
board is tacky.

A carbide dental burr with a rice-shaped end seems to be best.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: Carving tool for pcb's

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  Being so mumbly fingered that you slice clear through the board is an  
indicator that someone else should be doing it.

  There are CNC type gantry setups for mounting a dremel tool allowing  
the operator to have digitized x y control of the tool.

  Both moving head and moving bed types.  Also types which evolved into  
homespun 3-D printer cages. x y & z.

  If there were suitable polymer based conductor media, one could 3-D  
print circuit connections.

Re: Carving tool for pcb's
On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 20:41:08 +0000 (UTC),
snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote:

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As snipped, I get better control with a carbide dental burr than a
grinding disk. The burr doesn't gum up with copper.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7bihbjbaojvta0z/Z382_1.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/48c8qh80yhbehj6/Z356_Top.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yur6uuhytc7cfcn/D200_BB_4.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?dl=0


Show us some of yours.


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I've considered something like that, but it looks like a big deal, and
I also make Dremel mods to stuff on my bench, after it's all hooked up
to test equipment. I usually remember to cut power off before
dremeling or soldering. I've really got pretty good at hand cutting
FR4.

The gold plated FR4 is a nice touch. It solders beautifully and stays
shiny... no corroded fingerprints a few weeks later.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: Carving tool for pcb's

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Just clean the copper and apply a clear acrylic spray. It dries instantly,  
you can solder through it, and eliminates corrosion and fingerprints.


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