I love Wyoming and Colorado and Wisconsin and have an affection for my state of birth, Louisiana. I just don't like hot and dry and Indian turquoise souvenir stands.
There's a sign on I80 that says Welcome To Nevada. The sign is unnecessary. The border is obvious; it's where all the trees die.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 11:59:41 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: [...]
What are the gun laws like there, Jim?
Unlikely. It's a bit like having a drunk or a drug addict in the family. Others see the damage and avoid going down the same path. Unless you rely on CNN for your news, of course, in which case you probably believe the Californica model is inspirational and should be adopted nationwide.
Open carry by anyone. Concealed carry requires a permit. ...Jim Thompson
-- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at
I'm looking for work... see my website.
Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
Passive heat/cool storage is a fine idea, but the idea of incorporating any sort of flammable material into drywall boards seems more than slightly dubious.
Drywall is fire-retardant. Drywall incorporating a solid/liquid petroleum product, in any significant amounts, would turn from an energy-storage tank to an energy source in the case of a building fire. It might not _initially_ be more flammable than ordinary drywall (depending on the surface layers) but once a building fire got hot enough to "sweat out" the oil it would probably go up like a torch.
It seems to me it could turn a minor, controllable fire into a raging inferno.
Keeping the thermal mass in a tank seems like a much better idea. Or, if you do incorporate some sort of phase-change beads into drywall, use a material that's can't ignite at house-fire temperatures.
Den tirsdag den 18. juli 2017 kl. 19.49.07 UTC+2 skrev Jim Thompson:
I'm quite sure it doesn't require a permit, you just have to be over 21
In Arizona you have to "qualify" for a CCW Permit. My son Aaron (the AR-15 collector ;-) has a CCW permit, and is armed _at_all_times_. ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I'm looking for work... see my website.
Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
Den tirsdag den 18. juli 2017 kl. 20.30.05 UTC+2 skrev Jim Thompson:
you don't need a permit.
Not sure what you are talking about. I described *existing* low-tech storage. I assume by "better" you were referring to something to directly store the electricity. Thermal storage isn't about storing the electricity, it doesn't even need to be used with solar to provide benefit but can simply moderate the temperature fluctuations between night and day.
I don't understand what you mean about thermal mass. Are you saying your homes are paper like in the old days in Japan?
I don't get your reference to the other uses of electricity. Are you suggesting it is of no value to reduce the amount of electricity used if you can't go completely off grid?
You are confusing latent heat with specific heat. Water has high values of both, but specific heat requires a *much* larger temperature change to store the same amount of heat as the latent heat of melting/freezing. For water, the latent heat of freezing is the same as an 80C rise in temperature, but requires generation of 0C for operation. For coconut oil the ratio is around 50C. Even comparing the specific heat of water to the latent heat of coconut oil gives 26C.
To use water you need a way to generate a much larger temperature rise/fall which reduces the efficiency of the heating/cooling unit or you need a *lot* more material raising the costs.
Really? You think the environmental issues of coconut oil are significant?
I did a quick calculation and found 40,000 liters is half again the size of the room I am presently in. If I were to put that in the basement garage next to my furnace I would no longer have a garage. That doesn't seem like a trivial thing to me.
You didn't mention a way to get the heat in and out of this tank of water. You also don't mention the construction. I don't have a lot of experience with water storage tanks, but I know they line water heaters with glass to prevent corrosion. Water is highly corrosive and an 8 foot tall tank of water would not be a trivial thing to construct.
I wouldn't know about your costs. The materials I've read always put solar hot water at the top of the list in terms of return on investment because of the low cost.
We are not on the same page. You seem to shift gears without explanation.
-- Rick C
Didn't know about that, but the CCW _does_ avoid any issues during traffic stops, etc, because it's basically a certification that you took a weapons training course.... and know the "etiquette" ;-) ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I'm looking for work... see my website.
Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
I think Jim is like a lot of the barking dogs I see. If you turn to confront them they take off running. He's not going to shoot anyone just like he isn't going to report anyone to the FBI. He's too scared of any real confrontation. That's why he loves his guns so much. Happiness is a warm gun, baby. Much nicer than people, no?
-- Rick C
John Robertson wrote on 7/17/2017 1:40 PM: >
I hate when people use euphemisms to describe groups. I have a hard enough time remembering which party is red and which is blue. I have no idea who the "alarmist Cassandras" are. Is that a new punk rock group?
-- Rick C
Jeff Liebermann wrote on 7/17/2017 2:12 PM:
According to the data I've seen this would be a 10 kW system, much larger than needed to run the home. Why so large?
-- Rick C
"Space travel"??? That's your example of producing "results NOW"???
WTF?
So please explain the rapid die off of the coral reefs...
-- Rick C
There are a number of houses here in Arizona that are mostly underground. ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I'm looking for work... see my website.
Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
John Larkin wrote on 7/18/2017 12:35 PM:
And some people's biggest fear is fear itself.
-- Rick C
Sorry, my mistake. I'll confess that I picked my numbers without doing any research on current system prices. They're much lower than I had guessed.
Prices for installed grid tied solar electric runs about $3.50/watt with 5KW being the "average" system or about $17,500 before incentives. After incentives, I'm not sure as this varies by state, but it will be less. This article says about -30%.
"How much do solar panels cost in the U.S. in 2017"? The article says panel cost but really means installed system cost.
Whether you consider this to be insignificant depends on your financial condition. To the builder, every penny counts, especially if he has to borrow the money. To the new home buyer, not so much as the added cost can be spread over the term of the loan. The bank, it raises the appraised value of the house somewhat. To the insurance company, it's just another "appliance" that can start a fire.
I would not have much of an issue with requiring solar power on new homes, but only after someone does a site survey to make sure the house is located where solar makes sense. Installing solar where I live in the middle of a redwood forest is of limited value. On existing homes, it's a problem because it might require a roofing replacement or possibly some structural work.
All this and more will need to worked out when the bill is written and debated.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
While working in the Middle East a long time ago, it was interesting to see luxury cars parked outside mud houses. Those houses had thick walls (more than 50 cm) thus having a large thermal mass, keeping the inside temperature comfortable, while the outside temperature varied daily from +45 C downwards.
If the houses in California are as flimsy as those destroyed in the Tornado Allay, there are very limited thermal mass.
If you can satisfy the heating/cooling requirements by other means, how much electricity do you really need ? Powering the computers, phones and LED lights do not require much battery backed electricity.
Dry ice (frozen CO2) might be an option to dump a/c heat.
In a well insulated house, 1000 liters should help a lot. In order to move big water tanks into existing house, you would have to limit individual tanks to 500 liters to get through the doors, so 2-4 such would be quite sufficient.
Water would be even easier. Of course, if the environ people objects against the deadly poison (dihydrogen oxide) all hopes are lost :-)
One tenth would be more realistic.
White plastic tanks will supply water suitably for taking a shower :-)
There are two issues with electronics.
For this reason, the power consumption of LEDs and monitors should be kept as low as possible.
[snip]
I've seen older houses here in Arizona comprised of two outside walls with a couple feet of dirt fill in between.
[snip].Many of the houses in the Bay Area have no insulation at all... I know, I rented one in Cupertino for a short period of time in 1968.
[snip] ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I'm looking for work... see my website.
Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
I can't think of a less efficient way to store heat. Dry ice forms at
-78.5C. When it absorbs heat from the environment it returns to gas at that temperature. So you would need to contain it in a way that you don't lose the gas and yet don't have a vacuum in the container when it is a solid. Allowing the gas to escape on sublimation means you have to recover it from the air by cooling the entire mixture of atmospheric gasses from 20C to
-78.5C before you can solidify it.
Or do I miss something in your idea?
Still huge and no indication of how to get the heat in and out. The point of phase change materials is they use *much* less mass to do the same job and provide a nearly constant temperature while doing it making the process more efficient. Water has no advantage in this application. Heck, phase change materials can be completely passive when built into the structure.
So water is a better solution to a problem that doesn't exist? Actually, I seriously doubt water can be used alone. It will need additives to prevent corrosion, growth, etc. These chemicals will present more issues than coconut oil.
The numbers weren't mine.
What batteries??? The heat load in a house in the summer is mostly insolation. My computer and even my refrigerator heat generation pale in significance.
Who cares when the A/C uses 100 times as much power to keep the sun from overheating the house? Right now I have... a malfunctioning thermostat...
As I wrote this around 5:50 I realized the A/C was running and it wasn't supposed to come back on until 6:15. I checked the thermostat and the program called for the setpoint to be 82F from 2:45 to 6:15. I made some other adjustments to bring the temperature down more slowly after 6:15 and saved the changes. It seems to be working correctly now. I have no idea why it wasn't working right. I have noticed the usage was coming back up in the hour between 5 and 6 PM when 5 PM should have been a lax hour. We'll see if it holds.
So back to my thought, the A/C uses 3kW when running it would appear, maybe more. In the middle of a hot day it seems to run continuously. The lamp beside my computer is using about 15 watts and my PC is using around 25 watts. That's all the usage I have other than the refrigerator which I haven't been able to pin down. I find very widely varying info on the power the fridge uses and I can't tell what numbers are running numbers and which are average numbers. It is an older unit and from what I read it can be replaced with a unit that will recover it's cost in just a few years. So replacing it would be a worthwhile thing to do. I don't think it is worthwhile to worry about light bulbs or TVs (which I don't have).
-- Rick C
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