BGA soldering debate

Very good. Thanks!

Reply to
Steve Wilson
Loading thread data ...

If you don't know about it, California does have a ROHS law. Some examples:

--------------------------------------------------------------------- California's Legislature modeled the California RoHS Law after the European Union's (EU's) Directive 2002/95/EC which bans certain hazardous substances from electrical and electronic equipment sold in the EU. The California RoHS law required DTSC to adopt regulations prohibiting a covered electronic device from being sold or offered for sale in California if that device is prohibited from being sold or offered for sale in the EU due to the presence of lead, mercury, cadmium, or hexavalent chromium above certain maximum concentration values (MCVs). DTSC's California RoHS regulations took effect January 1, 2007.

formatting link

The maximum concentration values (MCV) under California's RoHS Regulation are the same as those that apply to the European Union's RoHS Directive. For lead, mercury, and hexavalent chromium the MCV is 0.1% by weight. The MCV for cadmium is 0.01% by weight. In contrast to the EU, California does not restrict PBB and PBDE. The presence of restricted substances is measured for each homogeneous material contained within the device, not for the device as a whole.

formatting link

The California legislation is modeled after the EU Directive but covers a narrower scope, limiting the content of only four metals (lead, cadmium, mercury and hexavelent chromium). California RoHS also limits the scope of product affected to "covered electronic devices" including LCD's, CRTs and the like. The maximum concentration limits for the restricted metals under CA RoHS are

0.1% by weight for lead, mercury and hexavalent chromium and is 0.01% by weight for cadmium. The state regulation affects anyone who sells, or offers for sale, the prohibited items; including manufacturers, distributors, wholesalers and retailers.

formatting link

Covered Electronic Devices What is a "Covered Electronic Device"?

Flat screen television

A covered electronic device is a video display device with a screen greater than four inches, measured diagonally, which DTSC has identified in regulation as a device that is presumed to be hazardous waste when discarded.

A video display device is an electronic device with an output surface that displays, or is capable of displaying, moving graphical images or a visual representation of image sequences or pictures, showing a number of quickly changing images on a screen in fast succession, to create the illusion of motion. This definition includes, if applicable, any device that is an integral part of the display, in that it cannot easily remove it from the display. A video display device may use, but is not limited to, a cathode ray tube (CRT), liquid crystal display (LCD), gas plasma, digital light processing or other image projection technology.

-See Public Resources Code section 42463 for complete definitions

-See DTSC's Electronic Waste (E-waste) web site for additional information

Current List of Covered Electronic Devices

DTSC has identified and listed nine categories of covered electronic devices in its regulations. The list of devices includes:

Television Cathode ray tube containing devices (CRT devices) Cathode ray tubes (CRTs) Computer monitors containing CRTs Laptop computers with liquid crystal display (LCD) Flat screen televisionLCD containing desktop monitors LaptopTelevisions containing CRTs Televisions containing LCD screens Plasma televisions Portable DVD players with LCD screens

You can find the current list at California Code of Regulations, title 22, chapter 11, appendix X, subdivision (c):

formatting link
_ready-to-post.pdf

formatting link

---------------------------------------------------------------------

You might be able to get away with using lead solder in the 0.1% by weight rule. I guess you'd have to weigh the pcb before adding solder paste, then find the weight after soldering to get the amount of SnPb. 37% of the difference gives you the amount of lead.

Then add the finished weight of the chassis including mounting bolts, feet, connectors, handles, etc.

I wonder if Europe has the same rule.

Reply to
Steve Wilson

Change to "find the weight after adding the paste."

This gives the weight of the solder plus resin. The manufacturer should know how much resin is in the paste, so you could subtract that to find the weight of solder. Then take 37% to find the weight of lead.

I don't think it would be very much.

Reply to
Steve Wilson

In Europe, no way round except hobby/prototype and Military/Aerospace/telecoms.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Reply to
TTman

Automotive?

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Yes and a few others minor groups- certain Medical products

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Reply to
TTman

What about having the company return the product to you for disposal?

Reply to
Steve Wilson

We're talking the leagality of selling non RHOS stuff here and if Pb + Sn is a good idea

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Reply to
TTman

That is exactly what I am talking about. I assume ROHS is not preferred due to weak adhesion, high temperatures, hard to clean, whiskers, etc. Military, Aerospace and others recognize this and demand SnPb.

For non-Aerospace or Military use, I propose shipping SnPb to European customers with the proviso that when they need to dispose of a unit, they ship it back to me.

This will help in a number of ways. We have no ROHS in Canada (yet), the amount of lead is likely to be less than 0.1% by weight, and it would make it possible to check on long-term drift in critical circuits, and see how much abuse the unit is subjected to.

I realize there may still be legal complications, and difficulty explaining to Customs the purpose of the shipment. But it may be a way to ship SnPb to Europe.

Reply to
Steve Wilson

The CA ROHS thing is very limited, basically to certain consumer video displays.

We have several European and Australian customers, aerospace and semiconductor, who have directed us to not build lead-free for them. They have exemptions somehow.

In our company history we have had one box bounced at european customs for not having a CE sticker.

I was in England meeting with a bunch of engineers. I asked them if all their grear was going to be CE certified. They all laughed out loud. Then they explained to this ignorant yankee that CE means Can't Enforce.

--

John Larkin   Highland Technology, Inc   trk 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

Automotive has been lead-free for well over 10 years - apart from the battery.

John

Reply to
jrwalliker

Yup, I was re-reading one of the Pugh books last night and checked on that--you're quite right. I expect it was the very-multilayer ceramic/refractory metal bricks I was thinking of--I think they were first used in the 3081 TCM.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
https://hobbs-eo.com
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

The process for the bricks was amazing. Shrinkage of something like

20% during firing but controlled well enough for 100ish layers of wiring and chip attach.
Reply to
krw

You are welcome!

I checked your website. Interesting products. I don't know enough about induction heating to tell what frequency you are working on, but there are some that could cause problems. For example:

  1. Time transmissions on WWVB on 60 kHz, DCF77 on 77.5 kHz, JJY in Japan on 40 & 60 kHz, Taldom in Russia on 66.66 kHz, BPC in Lintong, China on 68.5 kHz, MSF in Anthorn, UK, on 60 kHz. It is very difficult to tell where any interference is coming from.
  2. Long wave (LF) broadcasting in Europe.

  1. Non-Directional Beacons (NDB) in North America between 190 kHz and 535 kHz. I need these for navigation and IFR holding patterns, so please don't wipe them out.

  2. ELoran, a new backup when GPS is jammed, operating in the 90-110 kHz frequency band.

You'd think your frequencies and any harmonics wouldn't travel very far. This is normally true, but depending on propagation conditions, low power signals have been known to travel over long distances. Check the AM broadcast band after dark.

Reply to
Steve Wilson

I did some more research. It looks like you may fall under FCC regulations Part 15 and 18. The rules are extensive and complex. You may pass under one interpretation, and fail under another. You need someone who is competent and knowlegable in these regulations to help you meet them.

Here are some examples. Please note they are probably not up to date and may be incomplete:

formatting link

FCC Part-15 Rules: Unlicensed RF Devices

formatting link

1998 Biennial Regulatory Review -- ) ET Docket No. 98-80 Conducted Emissions Limits Below 30 MHz ) for Equipment Regulated Under Parts 15 ) and 18 of the Commission's Rules

formatting link

8102.pdf

Title 47 CFR Part 15

formatting link

FCC Declaration of Conformity

formatting link

47 CFR Part 18 - INDUSTRIAL, SCIENTIFIC, AND MEDICAL EQUIPMENT
formatting link
Reply to
Steve Wilson

oops - I forgot one:

formatting link
vol1-part18.pdf

Reply to
Steve Wilson

Semiconductor fab gear. Or maybe just be a giant company with influence.

--

John Larkin   Highland Technology, Inc   trk 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

I got some pics of lead-free BGAs that were soldered to PCBs with tin-lead solder and a corresponding low-temperature profile. Apparently my production people did this for a couple of years, millions of balls, with no problems.

formatting link

formatting link

formatting link

formatting link

What's interesting is that some of the balls look bigger on the bottom (pcb side) than on top (FPGA side.) Maybe the tin-lead paste alloyed into the lead-free ball and melted it locally.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

Looks like they just alloyed into plumbing solder. ;)

The third and fourth ones are ugly enough to scare even medium-sized children.

Don't go any colder on that temperature profile!

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
https://hobbs-eo.com
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

I thought those last two were the best. The solder joint on the PCB side looks great. The one on the FPGA side isn't as wide, but that's how they shipped it, and balls don't fall off the FPGAs in the tubes.

This is a half-collapse scenario: the ball melts and squishes down on the PCB side but the top side stays as-shipped.

We are including planarity specs on our fab drawings lately.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.