--
If you were salaried you were no peer and you weren't working _with_
them, you were working _for_ them.
A subtle distinction perhaps, but one which speaks volumes about the
chip on your shoulder and your abhorrence at being taken advantage of.
Even here, where you refuse to concede the slightest point even if
you're dead wrong.
Or, perhaps, especially here - where you seem to think you're
surrounded by incompetents - and have the most face to lose by being
called to task for an error committed, by the hoi polloi.
There's also an HC7046, also claimed to be better than the 4046, also has a crappy oscillator, and the phase detector is no better than a 4046 with a 1 meg resistor to ground from the PD output.
All you have to do to clean up PD2 is pull the servo point ~10 ns away from the deadband. Compared to using a boutique part, that's a win.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
I was not their employee, I was not salaried, and the brainstorming for the atom probe was all for free. I even paid my own air fares. Madison Wisconsin is kind of neat.
You like being taken advantage of? Enjoy!
Patents are just an expensive, time-consuming license to litigate, even if you can somehow find out that someone has copied a design. It's more time-efficient to just keep designing better stuff and keep ahead of the competition. Besides, if any of my customers discovered that someone had copied our designs, they'd blackball them. It has happened.
A lot of the stuff we do would be very hard to reverse engineer anyhow, to fight for half of a niche market. And if it happened once in a while, it's not a disaster. Like I said, just keep ahead of them.
I have a couple of new ideas that I may just publish in the public domain, so somebody else can't patent them. This new "first to file" thing is outrageous. It's a consequence of the US Patent office being a profit center, not a public service.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
I do it all the time, I just don't announce it, so virtually no one notices.
There's been a recent significant change that I posted here, multiple times, but no one has noticed, which proves my point.
At least we agree on one thing ;-) ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
I don't think that posting to SED is adequate public disclosure. The legal requirement is that it be published in "a printed publication." A couple of outfits will do that, for around $100.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
That may explain why Gardner's "Phaselock Techniques" doesn't mention the MC4024 and MC4044, which were around when the book was published.
I've mentioned before that I found that to be an unexpected omission. Granting Jim's winning personality and irresistible charm, it has to be the only possible explanation.
According to the 1980 RCA COS/MOS Data Book, the CD4044 was a "three-state quad latch."
There must be databooks online somewhere. If not, I can scan the CD4046 part of the book, which is 6 pages and a lot of data, including an image of the mask.
The CD4046A is listed in the 1975 RCA Solid-State Devices Manual too.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
MC4044 was the PFD, concept proposed by me, and digitally implemented by Ron Treadway.
The MC4024 was my first VCM.
See my website for links. ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
The RCA 4046 seems to have been half-inspired by Motorola' MC4024 oscillator, designed by our very own Jim Thompson, who also claims to have had a hand in the other half of the inspiration, the Motorola MC4044 phase detector chip.
Both the Motorola parts were TTL, and putting them together in one chip would probably have produced a device that ran too hot to work. Motorola certainly paired them up in its publicity material, and I used them as a pair back in 1972.
Thanks very much for your help. I am trying to track down examples of the phase-frequency detector prior to Ron Treadway's 1971 patent:
formatting link
Dobbie's 1961 patent looks very similar:
formatting link
I understand there was a British radio receiver from this time frame that used a similar configuration, but I have so far had no luck in locating any more information.
The phase-frequency detector is probably one of the most important single inventions in frequency synthesis, and it is buried inside a great deal of conventional technology. Nobody knows it even exists. I'd like to learn more about who first invented it, where it was used, and what other inventions and technological developments resulted.
Floyd M. Gardner's book "Phaselock Techniques" ISBN 0-471-04294-3 for the s econd edition, published in 1979, is careful to distinguish between "multip lier" and "sequential" phase detection circuits. Within the "sequential" ca tegory he distinguishes between simple flip-flops and the MC4044/CD4046 cir cuit.
The first is referenced back to a paper by C.J. Byrne, "Properties and desi gn of the Phase-Controlled Oscillator with a Sawtooth Comparator", publishe d in March 1962 in the Bell System Technical Journal, volume 41, pages 559-
602. The other is referenced to the Motorola and RCA data books for 1973 an d 1972 respectively.
There are suggestions that Floyd M. Gardener didn't like Motorola - Ron Tre adway's 1971 patent should have had precedence, if Gardner knew about it, a nd presumably Treadway's patent was carefully formulated to get around what ever it was that Byrne had published.
The PFD edge sequence scheme and charge-pump was my conceptual idea, and was implemented in digital by Ron Treadway back when we were both employed by Motorola in the mid '60's and were trying to make our
2-meter rigs tune nicely....
formatting link
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.