The place I'm contracting has one of these: and they want me to use it to build some prototype boards.
They're going to bring over a Mac tomorrow since I don't have one to use with the machine (incredibly, there is no Windows software for this machine).
Hoping it can do 0.05" spacing well enough.
There has been a tool something like this in the last two places I've worked. Neither had/has been used in the time I've been there. By the time you get the layout done, it's easier and better to just get a board made. They're a waste, IMO.
The last place I worked we had a LKPD milling machine. We used it at least
4-5 times per week and it was great for producing fast prototyping. We coul d come up with an idea in the morning and have a working PCB in the afterno on. With PCB prototyping that takes a weekCheers
Klaus
What did you do about the PTH?
Is that supposed to b e 0.005" spacing? I can't imagine 50 mils being a problem. 5 mils might be an issue though.
The one I saw used had a tapered bit. So by adjusting the height the width of the cut could be adjusted. Of course the tip was fairly fragile and often broke.
-- Rick
Milled PCBs are very limited. They take a lot of time to set up and make, and they don't have vias, multiple layers, solder mask or silkscreens or decent plating. If your time is worth anything, order a few nice 4-layer boards from a quickturn PCB house.
We had an expensive PCB milling machine for a while, on loan. It wasn't worth using.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing laser drivers and controllers jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Our products are 4-10 layers and have BGAs, chip-scale parts, and at least hundreds of parts, sometime over a thousand. We don't prototype, and couldn't prototype on a milled board anyhow.
We do occasionally make small breadboards to test one part or one little circuit, where we don't have the data or tools to be confident. We hack them on copperclad with adapters, or order a few real 4-layer boards with PTHs and solder mask and silk and gold plating. Most product designs go from concept to a manufactured, sellable rev A without any physical breadboarding or protos.
I'd argue that in most cases prototyping slows down development and wastes engineering/tech hours and teaches bad habits. Might make sense for microstrip filters or patch antennas, maybe, if you don't trust your tools.
I work with companies that assume prototype, a couple of betas, preproduction, pilot production, and production versions. It takes them years to get anything done.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing laser drivers and controllers jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
I can breadboard much faster than get someone to do a layout and I can get eight layer boards in a week. A two-layer prototype is a day away (after layout). Four layer, two days - tops.
Anyone make such a milling machine priced for home hobbyist use? ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Den tirsdag den 7. juli 2015 kl. 20.57.23 UTC+2 skrev Jim Thompson:
it
use
st 4-5 times per week and it was great for producing fast prototyping. We c ould come up with an idea in the morning and have a working PCB in the afte rnoon. With PCB prototyping that takes a week
you can get a Chinese router/engraver on ebay for ~$500 that would do the j ob but for hobby use it doesn't make much sense, you'll spend more in tool bits than it cost to get a prober pcb made and delivered in a few weeks
as an example, 10 pieces, 10x10cm, 2 layers, delivered with UPS express in
8 days ~$30-Lasse
My only thought was, in the prototyping phase, I'm often prone to screw-ups ;-)
But, for G-jobs, maybe I should not hurry and beat the scheme to death with simulations... then order a board. ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Den tirsdag den 7. juli 2015 kl. 22.15.18 UTC+2 skrev Jim Thompson:
use it
to use
sve
t a
least 4-5 times per week and it was great for producing fast prototyping. W e could come up with an idea in the morning and have a working PCB in the a fternoon. With PCB prototyping that takes a week
e job but for hobby use it doesn't make much sense, you'll spend more in to ol bits than it cost to get a prober pcb made and delivered in a few weeks
in 8 days ~$30
doing ICs I would think you had learned to "measure twice, cut once"
makes a lot more sense, you still have to do the design, schematic, layout, find all the parts etc. so the week or two that it takes to get a board doesn't add that much
-Lasse
For my own personal stuff it's not only sometimes hurried, but often times using less than adequate Spice models... like I recently built up a (telephone) ring detector with a IC specifically for that purpose... didn't behave like the Spice model at all :-(
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
You can't do those. No big deal these days with so few through-hold parts.
-- "It's best not to argue with people who are determined to lose. Once you've told them about a superior alternative your responsibility is fulfilled and you can allow them to lose in peace." Mark Crispin, inventor of the IMAP protocol.
Where is a 2 layer board available in one day? That's wiring the layout Monday morning before sunshine and getting Tuesday via UPS or FedEx or similiar?
Hul
krw wrote:
The issue is vias.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Something like that. Not sure where. Our CAD group and purchasing take care of the details. It's not done often, though. There isn't much call for 2-layer boards.
it
use
ast 4-5 times per week and it was great for producing fast prototyping. We could come up with an idea in the morning and have a working PCB in the aft ernoon. With PCB prototyping that takes a week
Normally we used single sided SMD, but there's was also the posibility of c hemical vias to make PTH
Cheers
Klaus
Probably true for your line of work, if you don't use very high density circuit, then it's perfectly ok. Each time you save 100USD for a prototype PCB
Cheers
Klaus
it
use
st 4-5 times per week and it was great for producing fast prototyping. We c ould come up with an idea in the morning and have a working PCB in the afte rnoon. With PCB prototyping that takes a week
We normally have 2 prototype series, and 2-4 revision series PCBs before fu ll scale production. In the place where we used the milling machine, we cou ld have 10 prototypes before the final solution
Well, if you are on very tight time schedule, then milling will be a way to speed up the process (no waiting for PCBs)
Cheers
KLaus
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